What's a chaotic outsider like you doing in a place like this: or, why alignment isn't metagame knowledge.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Have a look at the Harrow deck.

This thing is a continent-widely-known fortune-telling and gambling instrument, which presupposes that its users know not only the alignment system but THE EXISTENCE OF THE SIX ABILITY SCORES. :)

...Okay, the six abilities are talked about in terms of Desna's philosophies and six "towers" or pillars of the self, but still.

Sovereign Court

Well, back in first edition elves were a class...we progressed somewhat from there, to the better i believe.


Also keep in mind, just because people know that the alignments exist doesn't mean they have the first clue where they actually fall on the alignment scale. That Lawful Evil Baron that taxes his subjects to death to fund his war against the neighborring peaceful kingdom. That guy would tell you he's Lawful Good. Not to fool you, but because he is convinced that what he is doing is right and justified. No tyrant has ever thought they were evil. Even when they were.

The LG Paladin that litters one day by accident may have a crisis of faith and is now convinced that he is Chaotic because he, heaven forbid, broke the law. The guy is still LG, but that doesn't mean he's aware of that fact.

Meanwhile the CE brigand leader who assassinates merchants and fences their goods for his personal gain may have a Robin Hood complex, believing his deeds are helping the less fortunate and proclaiming himself to be CG or heck even NG.

In a world where real actually physical demons and angels walk on the same ground you and I do, you can bet your sweet patoot I am going to believe in the concept of absolute Good, Evil, Chaos, and Law. How can you deny something that is physically staring you in your face, and potentially evicerating you.


Well, Pathfinder and D&D in general has always been weird about their planes and whatnot, especially the alignment-based ones. Apparently, if I glare at one of you and think angry thoughts for an appropriate amount of time, those feelings will eventually transcend the material plane and enter the plane of evil (take your pick!), where they give essence and identity to some shapeless abomination. The presumption here of course, being that evil is a tangible force.

It gets trickier with law and chaos. For planar purposes, I tend to think of these as Order and Madness, something the Shivering Isles might have beat in my head.


Loengrin wrote:
Hama wrote:

Doing what you want, when you want it isn't neutral...

Neutral alignment isn't an excuse to do whatever.

There is a certain amount of flexibility here.

"I do what I want, when I want..but not *that*. What do you think I am, scum?"...that could be Neutral...could be Chaotic Neutral...could be Chaotic Good, for matter, depending on the value of "what I want" and how strong the feeling is.


Mahorfeus wrote:
It gets trickier with law and chaos. For planar purposes, I tend to think of these as Order and Madness, something the Shivering Isles might have beat in my head.

I happen to believe that in real life, order and chaos are far more measurable than good and evil. The former actually exist as principles of physics. I believe the latter to be an entirely human construct, although I am quite happy to pretend otherwise in a game world where the gods are a tangible presence.


I like how the Dresden Files RPG handles alignment or moral compass or whatever you want to call it. You either have the Freedom to Choose/Freewill or you have Nature. Mortals have the capacity to choose, make decisions...supernatural critters and other non-mortal whosits must OBEY there nature.

How is this relevant? The feat mentioned in the OP is perfectly acceptable. Outsiders must obey there nature, which is much mroe closely tied to the alignment of their plane of origin than alignment is for non-outsiders on the Prime Material Plane.

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