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I often here player's complain that XP only seems to be awarded by killing something. Creatures and villians who flee reduces the experience. Story line oftens get lost when player's run a hack and slash campaign to advance. We often refer to these players as Day Players.
The group I run with try to run a story line campaign. Something that could be translated into print. At times we may not get alot of things accomplish in a session, but it moves the story line ahead, setting up a climax instead of a constant battle.
Player's need to be rewarded for game play. After all, in we wanted instant gradification, we have many online rpg's out there. I remember being in a campaign that ran 18 months. When we finally were finished (we got et) we felt like we lost a friend.
How do you campaigns run and where are the points awarded?
In most of my old campaigns I awarded XP for completing secondary goals or after major plot points (usually to the tune of 75 to 150 XP per average party level). XP was also awarded for successful social interactions based on the EL of the challenges (set by the DC's needed for social skills) as well as skill based hazards that needed to be overcome. Anymore I've scrapped XP with my regular group when playing Pathfinder since no spells or crafting require it anymore and I just tell the players when to level their characters (we still use XP when playing 2nd Edition or 3.5).
That said, I don't really have a problem with games where people only get noticable amounts XP via combat (not my style - I prefer a bit more roleplaying and a bit less combat, but not bad). As you level up your relative strength in combat increases, so XP being mostly tied to combat prowess isn't a bad thing. I often feel it to be a bit awkward to award heavy amounts of XP for less dangerous social situations since many times characters will be increasing their combat abilities with far fewer practical combat experiences.
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I often here player's complain that XP only seems to be awarded by killing something. Creatures and villians who flee reduces the experience.
Creatures or villains who flee do not reduce experience. The XP is explicitly for "defeating" the monster, not killing it. And, as any military historian will tell you, the enemy's retreat is almost universally a sign of defeat, and the players should be rewarded accordingly.
Now faked retreats leading into ambushes, tactical withdrawals, etc. might well not be defeats, but the monsters or villains running away because they'll die if they don't? That's a defeat, and the PCs get xp whether they get away or not.
How do you campaigns run and where are the points awarded?
XP is awarded for, to quote the core rules: "defeating monsters, overcoming challenges, and completing adventures." That sounds right to me. Though the challenges and defeats can as easily be social or mental as physical. Beating a sphinx at riddles is every bit as worthy of reward as defeating it in combat. And any accomplished story line goal is the end of an adventure.
In my campaigns, xp is awarded for excellect ROLE-playing, heroic acts of bravery and derring-do (i.e. making a great roll for a nearly impossible feat), and character development (i.e. writing a character background story or keeping a written "journal" of the characters adventures. Of course this is all in addition to killin' stuff.
My party levels at specific points in the adventure path. We don't track XP, so they get rewarded when they reach point in the story with new levels.
I use this method, too, and my players have been very happy (so far). They don't feel as pressured to chase bad guys, and concentrate more on the plots and the world around them. They have also taken a greater interest in NPC's as more than walking sacks of potential XP.
When I do keep track of XP, players will always get more XP for story and RP than they will for simply killin' stuff.
I usually aware xp when player reach an important part of the story. Especially if that story point requires uncovering something. So if, for instance. the players discover that the king's hand is secretly plotting against him, then I give out XP.
I also make sure to aware xp if players talk their way through a situation instead of fighting.
It's all a matter of perspective. I give out xp at the end of the evening. That's the xp for the whole session. The players don't know the source of each specific point of xp. Did they lose out on some xp when they didn't find X. they are none the wiser and no less happy about a fun night gaming.
To address a point in the OP. Creatures that flee should still give XP. Xp is for defeating an encounter no matter how. A creature forced to flee has been defeated. Enforcing a "must kill" to gain xp just fosters a bloodthirstiness in your players.
Think about it this way.. they are called experience points.. your characters gain them from experiencing (ie learning) different things. Defeating a creature by forcing it to flee is a learning experience through the eyes of the character is it not?
It depends on what I'm running. If I'm running something designed by me then I usually incorporate kill/encounter exp, skill challenge exp and story exp.
Currently I'm reading the Carrion Crown AP and that includes storyline exp awards in there, sizable exp awards at that.
EDIT: I award exp between sessions.
Next time I play, I'm going to test a method someone else on these forums (I think it was a dev, but unsure) suggested and had a nice PDF of: Split every level into 4 pieces; attack bonus/saves, hit points, skill points and class features. After every session or major plot line, the players get to chose one of these and gain the bonus for the next level. The next time, they get to chose one of the remaining three and so on, and when all four have been picked, they've increased a level.
That's the way I'm going to run it in the next campaign (though with an added 5th clause of feat, because they'll gain a feat every level), it seems like an excellent system.
XP is awarded for overcoming challenges.
That challenge might be a horde of orcs barring passage over a bridge. It might be breaking an enchantment manipulating a person into odd behaviour. It might be convincing a reluctant ruler to add his troops to a greater cause. It might be converting a previously defeated enemy to repent and atone.
Not everything involves a sword-swing. Some challenges are addressed in between combat, or indeed in place of it. Recognizing when a party or PC has overcome a challenge is part of the art of being a DM.
Convincing a king to abdicate should get more XP than beating his loyalists in a civil war.
My party levels at specific points in the adventure path. We don't track XP, so they get rewarded when they reach point in the story with new levels.
I use this as well, at least it reduces the urge to kill everything that lives, even if it would be more sensible to just bypass it in another way.
Greed still is a motivator, but at least they attempt to hide it somewhat, well sometimes they do. I give pretty decent story awards which tends to be better when someone puts effort in the game in a beneficial way.
How do you campaigns run and where are the points awarded?
Last couple of campaigns I have run, I've just advanced people when the time seemed appropriate and forgot the accounting. With PF not really having a death penalty anymore and no XP costs for crafting, why bother?
I try to ensure the players are at an appropriate level for the challenges presented. The Paizo APs all seem to have a sidebar which details what level the party should be at for given sections, so I simply follow that.
Honestly, I think everyone appreciates the simplicity.
I often here player's complain that XP only seems to be awarded by killing something. Creatures and villians who flee reduces the experience. Story line oftens get lost when player's run a hack and slash campaign to advance. We often refer to these players as Day Players.
The group I run with try to run a story line campaign. Something that could be translated into print. At times we may not get alot of things accomplish in a session, but it moves the story line ahead, setting up a climax instead of a constant battle.
Player's need to be rewarded for game play. After all, in we wanted instant gradification, we have many online rpg's out there. I remember being in a campaign that ran 18 months. When we finally were finished (we got et) we felt like we lost a friend.How do you campaigns run and where are the points awarded?
One of the most enjoyable 3.5 campaigns I played in used "10s and 20s" style experience, where a percentage of the level was granted for the session. This minimized paperwork for the GM and players and allowed for RP bonuses.
My character got a fair amount of experience for, of all things, starting a pegasus ranch. I sold them as mounts to nobles.
XP is awarded for, to quote the core rules: "defeating monsters, overcoming challenges, and completing adventures." That sounds right to me. Though the challenges and defeats can as easily be social or mental as physical. Beating a sphinx at riddles is every bit as worthy of reward as defeating it in combat. And any accomplished story line goal is the end of an adventure.
What he said. Defeat does not mean kill as in older editions, it means defeat. They die, surrender, flee or you just sneak past the guards and steal the widget and they are defeated -- experience. Challenges can cover a wide range of things including traps, use of skills, social obstacles, etc. and finishing an adventure nets a bonus. I don't use APs but there are still adventures that have an end game (as well as more sand box stuff).