Armor as DR, again

[Yamagata]

Hello folks.

Since the Second Edition I had tons of house rules, specially about armor DR, based on the Fighter's Handbook.

After years away from RPG books, the flame of homebrewing rekindled in my heart and I started adapting all those house rules to the Pathfinder RPG (I skipped all the 3.5 craze due to law school and work).
So, I submit to you, my peers in roleplaying, these rules about armor DR, in hope of obtaining feedback on how to improve (or even start from scratch) this system.

For starters, these rules were adapted from de Star Wars Roleplaying Game Revised Core Rulebook (2002).

Armor does not provide any bonus to AC, only DR ranging from 1 to 7. The higher the DR, lower the maximum dexterity bonus, these ranging from +7 to +1. Regardless of the type of armor, the sum between DR and max. dex. bonus must always equals to 8.

Every time the character is hit, the armor absorbs damage, deducted from its Damage Points, so all armor has a new parameter that indicates the amount of punishment it can withstand before it crumbles (DP).

Likewise, shields and helmets afford DR and have the according DP.

Many of you may say: “This is outrageous! A character wearing a full plate armor is impervious to most short sword swings, and even a greatsword would do little damage against this DR!”. Enter a new combat maneuver: breach.

I based breach on the Halbschwert, a real technique employed during the 14th-16th century European historical fencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbschwert). With this combat maneuver, a character can totally trespass (ignore) the opponent’s armor DR. The attacker’s regular CMB is checked against the CMD of the opponent + the DR bonus the armor offers. Note that for breach purpose, the dex bonus in the CMD must be calculated based on the max dex. bonus the armor allows. Breach is a standard action and causes attacks of opportunity.

To encourage the use of breach, I created the feats Improved breach (+2 breach bonus, no attacks of opportunity) and great breach (another +2 breach bonus, and if successful, for the rest of the round, the breached opponent suffers -4 penalty CMD for any other breach attempt). The pre-requisites are combat expertise, for improved breach, and improved breach + BA+6 , regarding great breach.

Crushing weapons, for obvious reasons, can’t be employed on a breach attempt. To overcome this hindrance, when crushing weapons are used to sunder armors, there is a specific bonus that I prefer not to discuss now.

As for the touch attacks problems and low AC that these rules apparently causes, they are solved in the same manner Bill Slavicsek, Andy Collins and JD Wiker did at the de Star Wars Roleplaying Game Revised Core Rulebook (page 150).

That’s all for now. Thanks for reading.

Yamagata

[Sgmendez]

Here is a link to the Armor as DR rules as they were written in the Unearthed Arcana rulebook.

Armor as DR

Also the book Ultimate Combat set to release July of this year is supposed to have rules for Armor as DR as well.

[Yamagata]

Sgmendez wrote:

Here is a link to the Armor as DR rules as they were written in the Unearthed Arcana rulebook.

Armor as DR

Also the book Ultimate Combat set to release July of this year is supposed to have rules for Armor as DR as well.

Thanks for the link, Sgmendez.

I was aware of those rules, but I never liked them very much. That's the reason I adapted the rules from the Star Wars Rulebook.

As for the Ultimate Combat, I can hardly wait to see the new rules about armor as DR!

[Sgmendez]

Oh, ok. Just figured since you said that you didn't really play during 3.5 that you may not have been aware. I personally can't wait to see the book myself (as well as Ultimate Magic).

[Helaman]

Yamagata wrote:

I was aware of those rules, but I never liked them very much. That's the reason I adapted the rules from the Star Wars Rulebook.

How did the starwars mechanics play out?

[Mok]

Conan d20 has a great combat system that fully integrates armor DR into standard combat. Along with that it has supporting feats and ways to bypass armor with specific types of weapons, such as finesse weapons.

It's worth checking out.

[Yamagata]

Mok, thanks for the advice! I'm going to have a look at it.

Helaman, the Star Wars rules determines that armor never gives you any AC, only DR. Every class starts with a bonus AC, that gradually rises according to the character level.

The house rules I implemented takes into account that, due to wear and tear, occasionally every armor will need maintenance. The Star Wars rules doesn’t take this into account.

I’m always fiddling with the core mechanics, as my players and I enjoy a certain level complex rules. It doesn’t mean turning rules into a hassle, only making it more suitable to our tastes.

[Helaman]

This is what I have been fooling with but havent play tested and normal ACs apply...

Armour
Characters may choose to get additional protection from their armour each round. In addition to the normal armour class bonuses, the characters can choose to use their armour to prevent damage.

Light armour can provide a DR 1/- for any one attack each round.
Medium armour can provide a DR 2/- for any one attack each round or DR 1/- for up to two separate attacks a round.
Heavy armour can provide a DR 3/- for any one attack each round or DR 1/- for up to three separate attacks a round.

However in providing the wearer DR, the armour itself automatically takes damage equal to the damage deflected. Any DR stacks with character DR feats or abilities but not with DR provided by materials – DR provided by special material never provokes damage to the equipment.

Armour HP
All armours ACX5
*pg 175 of Core Rules

Add 5 hp for masterwork items.
Add 10 hp for each +1 enhancement bonus of magic items.

Once items take half their total hit points they become ‘Broken’, if 0 hit points or less, destroyed.

Players can also choose to have their armour negate a critical hit. Damage is calculated normally with DR applied, and the full damage deducted from the armours hit points. If the armour still has hit points remaining, then the critical effects do not apply. Again, once items take half or more of their total hit points they become ‘Broken’. Destroyed armour grants no armour class benefits but still penalizes as if were broken.

Broken: Items that have taken damage in excess of half their total hit points gain the broken condition, meaning
they are less effective at their designated task. The broken condition has varying effects, depending upon the item.

Its a bit more book keeping intensive but armour stops being a free resource - platemail mail have 40hps and can soak a lot of hits but one good critical or after a few battles its gonna need repair

[Slaunyeh]

Helaman wrote:

Yamagata wrote:

I was aware of those rules, but I never liked them very much. That's the reason I adapted the rules from the Star Wars Rulebook.

How did the starwars mechanics play out?

I don't know if you can really make a direct conversion from Star Wars to D&D. Star Wars also used the wounds/vitality system, and armour's primary function was to increase your odds of surviving a critical hit.

Our group has experimented a lot with using that system in D&D over the years, but it doesn't really translate well unless you change a lot of core D&D functionality. Ultimately, the systems they settled for in Unearthed Arcana didn't really accomplish what we were looking for.

[Yamagata]

Helaman,

I like very much the way you established the HP for armors, simple and elegant.

Slaunyeh,

As I mentioned above, we heavily rely on house rules, so the armor as DR system we adopt fits well in our campaign. I agree with you: implementing the Star Wars system directly into the Pathfinder core rules may unbalance the whole set of rules. That's why the system I developed is different from the Star Wars, taking into account one of the greatest rules of Pathfinder: Combat Maneuvers.

[Crestar]

Another interesting idea would be the approach the Palladium takes in their games. In case you are unfamiliar with the likes of Heroes Unlimited, Rifts and fantasy setting provided by this publisher let me list some examples.

Full Plate Armor
AC 20
SDC 60

What these number mean:
AC =Any Strike below this number does no damage to the person, just inflicts to the armor.

Structure Damage Capacity or SDC = Hit points for the armor. When an opponent strikes at the character and misses he inflicts his damage to the targets armor. If he rolls above the AC the damage is inflicted to both the armor and the person. When the armor loses all SDC it no longer provides any protection from incoming attacks.

Just a little different spin on things.

[yukongil]

I used similar rules before, the problem I've encountered is that the AR bonus is quickly bypassed by higher levels, making armor meaningless, or the additional hit points skew things to much in the favor of humanoids, unless you address some sort of system for additional hitpoints for Natural Armor for beasties, and then fights can drag on for quite a bit.

I found a fit was to allow for an active defense roll (much like Palladium's Strike vs. Parry/Dodge) and then use armor as DR, because without a bonus to AC, a character is far too easy to hit, defense bonuses or not, and any additional protection given in DR is overwhelmed by the amount of hits being landed.

[Slaunyeh]

Yamagata wrote:

Slaunyeh,

As I mentioned above, we heavily rely on house rules, so the armor as DR system we adopt fits well in our campaign. I agree with you: implementing the Star Wars system directly into the Pathfinder core rules may unbalance the whole set of rules. That's why the system I developed is different from the Star Wars, taking into account one of the greatest rules of Pathfinder: Combat Maneuvers.

Oh, it wasn't really a comment on your effort to make house rules. Just an acknowledgement of how difficult it can be. The two systems are deceptively dissimilar. :)

Good luck with it!