My Arcane Duelist Build

[posternutbag]

I have my character concept, and now I am looking for some help with a build. My character comes from a city where dueling is considered both a sport and the primary means of settling disputes. All of the noble houses in the city employ Swordmasters as both guards and as instructors to the scions of the house (as well as the children of favored retainers and servants). The use of magic in duels is accepted, almost to the point of being expected. So, I need an Arcane Duelist. I have seen the APG Arcane Duelist Bard variant, but am underwhelmed. I have three potential ideas:
1) Magus from the upcoming Ultimate Magic.
2) Fighter2/Wizard6/Eldritch KnightX
3) Ranger (Guide variant)2/Wizard6/Eldritch knightX

I do not foresee this campaign going far enough for me to finish Eldritch Knight, much less decide how to cap the build.

The Magus appears to be the most straightforward build. The consensus seems to be that the Magus is either slightly underpowered or well balanced, but can nova for a short period of time to greatly enhance its combat effectiveness. This trait actually works well for a duelist who seldom has to fight more than one fight per day.

The Fighter-based Eldritch Knight gets into Weapon Spec earlier and maximizes the Fighter/Eldritch Knight synergy.

The Ranger-based Eldritch Knight has a little more variety in terms of skills, better saves, and is more versatile in general, but lacks the Fighter/Eldritch Knight synergy. The Guide Variant has Ranger Focus which grants a bonus to hit and damage against 1 enemy at a time, which works well for a duelist.

I welcome any and all comments. I will post a little more of my build tonight.

[Sylvanite]

Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight X

will get you into your main thing faster while gaining a caster level. What spellcasting are you looking to do in duels? The best arcane longer buff spells are fairly low level, and you may not even need to advance your spellcasting much beyond 6th level or so. It might work to actually go Fighter 2/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 1/Duelist X. Then just pick up some rods of lesser extend or pearls of power that you need along the way.

Magus might be your best and most straightforward bet, though. Attack...use spell combat to cast Vanish, toss another shocking grasp in your spellstoring rapier....rinse repeat.

[posternutbag]

I could go Fighter or Ranger 1 instead of taking 2 levels, but Wizard 6 just seems better than Wizard 5; actually since you get a bump in BAB, Spells per day and Caster level with Wizard 6, a Fighter1/Wizard6 is probably superior to a Fighter1/Wizard5/EK1. Since Eldritch Knight 1 doesn't increase casting, I can't see a reason to take just one level of the PrC (the bonus Combat Feat, maybe?). I am staying away from the Duelist PrC because I won't be using a light or one-handed piercing weapon.

I'm still stuck between Fighter or Ranger, if I go the Gish route. The better saves and greater overall utility have me leaning towards Ranger because 1 level of Fighter won't get me much further down the Weapon Focus/Spec tree.

Spell selection is something that I haven't put a lot of time into, but I probably should.

Assuming I went the Magus route, at low levels I was planning on spamming Spell Combat with True Strike while casting defensively in duels that are to first touch (I should have stated in my opening, many, if not most of the duels will not be "to the death"). In duels to the death, Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch will be my mainstays.

The more I think about Gish builds, the less I like Arcane Bond. It really seems like more of a hindrance than a help.

[Phneri]

A couple things regarding the arcane duelist bard:

The way that weapon bond works means you can fight sword and board or 2h weapon without any penalty at all, as you can cast somatic spells with the sword in hand.

Arcane strike + power attack + strength + 1/2 price enchanted weapon is pretty disgusting. Arguably makes up for the lack of weapon specialization.

Bard casting is the only way you get access to a lot of really, really beneficial effects in a 1v1 (inspiration damage and hit bonus..which stacks with arcane strike, power attack, etc, etc...)

I've built an arcane duelist of the buckler fighter style duelist, and met with a lot of success.

Sword and board half-caster that regularly hits for +9 (+3 bab + heirloom weapon +4 from strength) to do d8+13 (4 strength, 4 PA, 2 bard song, 2 arcane strike, 1 weapon) isn't half bad. Particularly when you can use vanish to rev up most of those abilities at the start of the fight.

[Sylvanite]

posternutbag wrote:

I could go Fighter or Ranger 1 instead of taking 2 levels, but Wizard 6 just seems better than Wizard 5; actually since you get a bump in BAB, Spells per day and Caster level with Wizard 6, a Fighter1/Wizard6 is probably superior to a Fighter1/Wizard5/EK1. Since Eldritch Knight 1 doesn't increase casting, I can't see a reason to take just one level of the PrC (the bonus Combat Feat, maybe?). I am staying away from the Duelist PrC because I won't be using a light or one-handed piercing weapon.

I'm still stuck between Fighter or Ranger, if I go the Gish route. The better saves and greater overall utility have me leaning towards Ranger because 1 level of Fighter won't get me much further down the Weapon Focus/Spec tree.

Spell selection is something that I haven't put a lot of time into, but I probably should.

Assuming I went the Magus route, at low levels I was planning on spamming Spell Combat with True Strike while casting defensively in duels that are to first touch (I should have stated in my opening, many, if not most of the duels will not be "to the death"). In duels to the death, Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch will be my mainstays.

The more I think about Gish builds, the less I like Arcane Bond. It really seems like more of a hindrance than a help.

A Fighter 1/Wizard 6 is superior to a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 1....but that's not my point. I didn't realize you were only playing till 7. If that's the case, stay wizard for sure. However, Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK X ends up in the same spot as if you take that 6th wizard level and then go into EK. I was just suggesting you go into EK faster as you won't be playing till end-levels is all.

Arcane Bond is fine with Gish builds. Just don't make it your weapon. Make it a ring or something. (Unless you are an Arcane Duelist in which case you have no choice....but that has benefits to offset the lack of choice)

Ranger vs. Fighter really just comes down to the extra feat vs. assorted Ranger goodies. I favor the feat, but the argument is solid for both sides. If you are going to take more than one level eventually in EK, keep in mind that it stacks with Fighter levels for picking up Fighter feats like Weapon Spec and Greater Weapon Focus. Depending what level you play until, the original level in Fighter might make the difference in getting to take one of those feats, if you really care about getting them.

[Pendagast]

If only going to level 7, Magus spanks an EK build.

[TheSideKick]

So may I ask why the intrest in a "dueler" you don't need a rapier to duel if you get my point. I can make a monk fighter that will slap any eldrich knight build around like. A small child fighting a grown adult, assuming that it is a 1v1 fight.

Dwarven monk maxing disarm and trip feats ki throw with dirty tricks, it may not fight "proper" but it is hands down the best one on one build in the game. Make sure you take mage slayer and pierce magical protection if you decide to change your concept.

[Mike Schneider]

barb1/bard4/figh2/Chevalier PRC/barb2/(figh3+ or bard5+) -- your opponents will have better magic; but you'll be able to make your saves and have much better combat prowess.