Our last session, the sorcerer and two other members of the party were resting in a rope trick. Demons found rope trick and made their way in. Sorcerer, in panic, cast a second rope trick into a bag of holding, taking one of the three that were originally there with him. Late in session, late at night, off the cuff ruling (at the badgering of the sorcerer) put the two of them in the Astral Plane.
Looking for thoughts and further explanations for a more formal ruling before I have to come up with an adventure for the two PCs floating around in the Astral Plane.
Extradimensional Spaces
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.
I'm pretty sure that means that the premise shouldn't have happened by RAW: a rope-trick inside a bag of holding should effectively be inaccessible (though you could create it without creating a dimensional rupture).
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I just want to understand this - he cast a rope trick, within a rope trick? And that second rope trick led into a bag of holding?
So, the bag of holding was suspended at the top of the existing rope trick (I don't even want to pretend I know how to get stuff to stick to "extra-dimensional spaces... a rabbit/bear joke comes to mind...) and then a rope was inserted into the end of it, and the caster climbed up the rope into the upended, suspended bag of holding? Are you saying that the interface was inside the bag of holding or that it was at the edge of the bag of holding's opening?
I'm really not getting this...
EDIT - I hate ninjas.
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In the beginning of the wondrous items section there is a blurb about extra-dimensional spaces:
Extradimensional Spaces
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.
Basically if you are in one you can't use the other. So your bag of holding is just a bag in the Rope Trick, you can't cast rope trick inside of a bag of holding, and you can't cast rope trick inside another rope trick.
Ahhh, thank you all for confirming that this sorcerer and his companion are not residing in the Astral Plane, but in the innards of a pair of Vrocks.
I just want to understand this - he cast a rope trick, within a rope trick? And that second rope trick led into a bag of holding?
Yes... like I said, desperate measures and desperate for a ruling ;)
The rope cannot be removed or hidden.This has changed from 3.5.
Woah, what? What's the point of Rope Trick if all it's going to do is just dangle there alerting everyone to your "invisible" presence?
Woah, what? What's the point of Rope Trick if all it's going to do is just dangle there alerting everyone to your "invisible" presence?
The rope cannot be removed or hidden.This has changed from 3.5.
Well, it's still a warm, dry, and (relatively) safe place to rest. And pretty defensible, but, yeah, major nerf.
As to the OP: On the rules level, your ruling was incorrect. On the story element, when it's time to reboot, anything goes.
Although it does make for an awesome story element, it's also setting a house rule the GM may wish to avoid.
As long as you have a way to have 16,000 pounds pull on the rope, you can have it pull free. Also, You're a wizard, who says you can't fly up in the air, sure, someone might notice 5 feet of rope just floating around 100 feet up, but they'll have to work to get to it.
As long as you have a way to have 16,000 pounds pull on the rope, you can have it pull free.
Yeah, though does that end the spell? That's the big question. Is the 5-ft. rope absolutely necessary for the spell to continue functioning or is it possible to cut/burn/pull/remove the rope once the extradimensional spell is in place? I'd dearly love to know.
As long as you have a way to have 16,000 pounds pull on the rope, you can have it pull free.Yeah, though does that end the spell? That's the big question. Is the 5-ft. rope absolutely necessary for the spell to continue functioning or is it possible to cut/burn/pull/remove the rope once the extradimensional spell is in place? I'd dearly love to know.
My fluff: The rope is the only connection between the extradimensional space and the place it is anchored. Were the rope to be removed, no one would be able to find the extradimensional space... but no one would be able to exit the extradimensional space either.
RAW: Ask your DM?
My fluff: The rope is the only connection between the extradimensional space and the place it is anchored. Were the rope to be removed, no one would be able to find the extradimensional space... but no one would be able to exit the extradimensional space either.
RAW: Ask your DM?
Sounds perfect to me. "Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends." and its dismissible. When the wizard is ready to leave, he can just dismiss the spell and drop out. Featherfall/whatever he needs to do, and badaboom.
Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot-by-5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can't see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.
Emphasis mine...above. I always gather a couple of mice or critters of some sort so that there are ALWAYS 8 creatures in the rope trick, so that nothing else can enter.
Eventually you can cast permanent invisibility and then non-detection (GM ruling needed for non-detection) on the rope that is to be used for the spell component for Rope Trick. Yeah it is tough to find the rope, but that is why I always put some nice smelling cologne on it...for the party to find!
The more Pathfinder that I play, the more I make sure I read and know the rules, and don't just "think I know that rule from 3.5 or other editions".
"The rope can't be removed or hidden", WHAT? That is just about the lamest and most vague nerf ever. What does removed mean? Can you pull it up so only 1mm is showing or is the rope unmoveable (except being broken with enough force)? The spell doesn't say the rope can't be moved, just that it can't be removed. Why can't it be hidden? So if I am invisible and cast rope trick on a 5' rope, the rope suddenly becomes visible? Does it magically stand out if I cast it behind a curtain? Is disguising the rope as a vine (or say in a place where there are many ropes hanging down) "Hiding" it? Say I cast it next to a ledge 20' high and then pile the rope onto the ledge, does it glow (after all, it can't be hidden)?
I am a big fan of PF and like (or at least accept) most of their changes. This is the first one I think is outright stupid. Is there FAQ questions somewhere about this? I tried the search function and read a few other threads about Rope Trick, but found little that was useful.
Other posts about Rope Trick;
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/funnyRopeTrickClause&page=1&source=search#0
** spoiler omitted **
Emphasis mine...above. I always gather a couple of mice or critters of some sort so that there are ALWAYS 8 creatures in the rope trick, so that nothing else can enter.
Eventually you can cast permanent invisibility and then non-detection (GM ruling needed for non-detection) on the rope that is to be used for the spell component for Rope Trick. Yeah it is tough to find the rope, but that is why I always put some nice smelling cologne on it...for the party to find!
The more Pathfinder that I play, the more I make sure I read and know the rules, and don't just "think I know that rule from 3.5 or other editions".
WIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
+1,000
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"The rope can't be removed or hidden", WHAT? That is just about the lamest and most vague nerf ever.
I would read it instead as broadly inclusive, but at that point it's just a matter of opinion. It might be simplest to read it as "no part of the rope may be brought into the extradimensional space".
What does removed mean? Can you pull it up so only 1mm is showing or is the rope unmoveable (except being broken with enough force)?
No, that would be hiding part of the rope.
So if I am invisible and cast rope trick on a 5' rope, the rope suddenly becomes visible?
It's a fair question that's been asked before. I believe casting invisibility or similar spells on the rope is OK (if the caster wants to burn another 2nd level spell that can be countered in various ways, let him) but a GM could rule otherwise.
Does it magically stand out if I cast it behind a curtain? Is disguising the rope as a vine (or say in a place where there are many ropes hanging down) "Hiding" it? Say I cast it next to a ledge 20' high and then pile the rope onto the ledge, does it glow (after all, it can't be hidden)?
If someone was behind the curtain, on the ledge, or capable of telling a painted rope from a vine, she could see it. I think those are all OK.