I hope I am not beating a dead horse here, but after scouring the books \ PRD, as well as searching the messageboards, I am stumbling into a problem with creating potions that I can not resolve.
RAW establishes that any spell level 1st through 3rd can be made into a potion; provided that the creator has access to the spell (has the spell prepared \ is a known spell), has a casting time of 1 minute or less, targets one or more creatures, and has a range other than personal.
By this, it is possible to create a Potion of Fireball? Fireball is a third level Wizard \ Sorcerer spell, a casting time of one standard action, affects one or more targets, and possesses a range other than personal.
By RAW, Potion of Fireball is a legal potion, by all accounts I can come up with. How does a Potion of Fireball work? Is the imbiber the one that takes the damage, or does it give said individual the ability to creatively throw a fireball from portions of his \ her anatomy? Does a Potion of Lightning Bolt turn the imbiber into William Wallace?
Am I missing something here? Is there something in the rules that restricts a ranged attack spell from being turned into a potion? I hope it is merely something that I have overlooked, and anything that can point me into the right direction would be appreciated.
If its something that as a GM I have to use common sense over, that is not a problem. I am hoping for something a bit more offical to help guide me.
I hope I am not beating a dead horse here, but after scouring the books \ PRD, as well as searching the messageboards, I am stumbling into a problem with creating potions that I can not resolve.
RAW establishes that any spell level 1st through 3rd can be made into a potion; provided that the creator has access to the spell (has the spell prepared \ is a known spell), has a casting time of 1 minute or less, targets one or more creatures, and has a range other than personal.
My copy doesn't say ANYTHING about 'a range other than personal'. Can you find that quote? Is that on p.477?
By this, it is possible to create a Potion of Fireball? Fireball is a third level Wizard \ Sorcerer spell, a casting time of one standard action, affects one or more targets, and possesses a range other than personal.
By RAW, Potion of Fireball is a legal potion, by all accounts I can come up with. How does a Potion of Fireball work?...
Am I missing something here? Is there something in the rules that restricts a ranged attack spell from being turned into a potion? I hope it is merely something that I have overlooked, and anything that can point me into the right direction would be appreciated.
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character
taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the
effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done
so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and
the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster
level, the drinker still controls the effect).
The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the
object is the target.
There ya go. You fireball yourself. You are the center of effect. Don't do that, hippy. No reason you couldn't have an 'Oil of OhMyGodDon'tDropThis!!!XXX!!!' that 'targets' where you smash the glass bottle...
Edit: Actually, it occurs to me... 'targets one or more creatures' may be referring to the 'target' line. So Potion of Magic Missile, yes, Potion of Fireball no?
Potion of Fireball is not a possible potion to create. It targets an area and thus does not "target one or more creatures". The spell must have the Target listed as one or more creatures.
That being said, I don't see anything in the rules that would prevent you from creating a potion of Acid Arrow or Blindness. The spell (beneficial or not) would be cast on the person who drinks it.
From the potion rules:
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect.
So unless you're a massochist or like shoving potions in your captured enemies mouths, I don't see much harm in creating a potion with negative effects.
The drinker of the spell would be the target of the spell, and in this case would take damage. Additionally, the drinker might be the only one to take damage; I'd have to check to be sure, but I don't think the blast from a fireball spell radiates beyond solid objects, and as a result would be contained within the individual drinking the potion.
Of course, that much concentrated arcane boom would probably be enough to incinerate someone in most cases; if a player can cut their way out of a stomach with a dagger, a fireball can probably find its way out as well. But that would be up to the GM. :D
EDIT All that said, Stynkk is correct; fireball does not target anyone, and as such is not eligible to be contained within a potion.
My copy doesn't say ANYTHING about 'a range other than personal'. Can you find that quote? Is that on p.477?
Pg 551 under the Magical Item creation section, Potion Creation. "The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions."
I can understand, and see the point now, with an area of effect spell being excluded for not meeting the "target of one or more" requirement. However, in Purplefixer's case of Magic Missile, would that cast on the imbiber, or give the ability of the spell, and allow a missile of magical energy to be launched from one's fingertip?
Could perhaps the creator of the potion decide upon making said potion how it worked? That would seem to be the most logical case, since the rules state that the creator sets the effects while creating, the imbiber merely benefits from the effects.
If that is the case, then what effects would constitute as legal for creating the potion? Would Lightning Bolt be disallowed because it lacks a clearly defined target (target stat block entry)? Or would it be allowed because it describes how the effect manifests from the caster in the description?
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However, in Purplefixer's case of Magic Missile, would that cast on the imbiber, or give the ability of the spell, and allow a missile of magical energy to be launched from one's fingertip?
The drinker is both the target and the caster. You've got 1-5 missiles filling your gut dealing force damage if you drink it. No questions asked. This is what it is to be a potion. If the caster wants to give the ability to cast Magic Missile, put it in a wonderous item. That's how a Necklace of Fireballs works.
Could perhaps the creator of the potion decide upon making said potion how it worked? That would seem to be the most logical case, since the rules state that the creator sets the effects while creating, the imbiber merely benefits from the effects.
No. That's not what a potion is RAW. The creator can decide if the potion of blindness/deafness is blindness or deafness. The creator can decide how the potion of Bestow Curse manifests. The creator of a potion of suggestion determines what is suggested. The creator does not get to determine targets. The fact it is a potion has determined the target, and that is the imbiber.
Now if you want to abuse this, brew such a negative potion with your cauldron witch and cast beguiling gift... that's how we have fun with this.
Would Lightning Bolt be disallowed because it lacks a clearly defined target (target stat block entry)?
Yes. Lightning Bolt is right out. It might hit targets, but it doesn't target anything, if that makes sense. If I want my sorcerer to just look imposing I can fire a lightning bolt straight up at nothing. No targets in the area, just a line of awesome in the air. You need 1 or more creatures in the target line of the spell.
From the potion rules:
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect.So unless you're a massochist or like shoving potions in your captured enemies mouths, I don't see much harm in creating a potion with negative effects.
I suggest that you re-read this part. If you had a potion of magic missile, you cast it on yourself and take damage. If you force another character to drink, they get the spell cast on them and take the damage.
If you would like an offensive item, might I suggest looking at Wands?
Thanks to everyone for their input. I now have a better set of guidelines for what should and should not be allowed as a potion.
If you would like an offensive item, might I suggest looking at Wands?
It was not so much looking for an offensive item, that this came about. Second session of the game, the party was looking to get kitted out for the quest they were undertaking. We all have 3.0 experience, so first thing everyone went after was a Potion of Cure Light Wounds. Not finding a potion list, I went to read the creation rules. A potion of CLW was easy enough to come up with, but reading the rules, questions were asked.
Questions that I have been having trouble resolving on my own with RAW. The players I had at the time are all experienced, and so asking for a potion of Fireball is a theory they would pose, but not something they would seek. We are working some new players into the game however, and I personally wanted a better understanding \ guideline for potion creation before one of them posed the question. I have no problem with saying no, but if I can, I prefer to have reasons to back up said decision.
Again, thanks everyone for your input. I now understand the rules for potion creation better.
The pre-emptive strike.. an excellent tool.
Reading the fireball spell again it says you fire a small bead that explodes where you determine or on impact (for example when you have to aim through a small hole but miss your ranged touch attack). So you could say you target a creature with the bead and thus it's a targeted spell. But it's a GM decision in the end.
I'd certainly let characters brew a fireball potion. If you have fire resistance you could imbibe it and become the center of the explosion (super belching power).
Otherwise the fire damage is dealt to your insides and if this surprasses the HP of your stomach walls you have a hole in your body.
Also the possibility that characters hide harmful potions between their normal ones in case they get stolen or otherwise acquired sounds fun to me :)
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Reading the fireball spell again it says you fire a small bead that explodes where you determine or on impact (for example when you have to aim through a small hole but miss your ranged touch attack). So you could say you target a creature with the bead and thus it's a targeted spell. But it's a GM decision in the end.
I'd certainly let characters brew a fireball potion. If you have fire resistance you could imbibe it and become the center of the explosion (super belching power).
Otherwise the fire damage is dealt to your insides and if this surprasses the HP of your stomach walls you have a hole in your body.Also the possibility that characters hide harmful potions between their normal ones in case they get stolen or otherwise acquired sounds fun to me :)
Though you're free to allow things in game, the target requirement of a potion kills this insofar as the actual rules are concerned. The thing you are talking about using is a necklace of fireballs. You can create that. You can even drop one of the beads at your feet... or eat it I suppose, though the damage is a burst and would have to break through his gut to get out and hurt others... not a fun prospect.
Fireball does not target anything except space. It has no target descriptor. Only things that target one or more creatures in their descriptions can be potions.
Yes, a fireball can be thrown to hit the squares of creatures. It does not target these creatures. The fireball explodes whether or not anyone is there. Compare this to charm person. You cannot charm something without targeting it. Charm person can be a potion, fireball cannot.
Charm person would be an interesting potion. The imbiber is both the caster and the target. Drinking a potion of charm person forces you to like yourself. Best self-esteem tool ever! Eat your heart out, therapists!
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My favorite is still the potion of vampiric touch.
Drink potion, take 2d6 damage and instantly gain the same amount in temp hit points.
1 hour later, the temp hit points vanish just leaving the 2d6 damage.
That combined with a trap designed to inject it in you (like the syringe spear) makes for a great encounter, especially right before a big combat.
What if I were to make an oil of Magic Missile and chuck it at an enemy?
One other method available to witches is the beguiling gift spell.
Certainly makes making these damaging potions a viable option, though you risk being attacked as it is adjacent creature :D
That has already been answered in this thread. Look at Sidious_Snake's response.
No, you cannot.
One other method available to witches is the beguiling gift spell.
Certainly makes making these damaging potions a viable option, though you risk being attacked as it is adjacent creature :D
I toyed with that idea once since Bards get it too. Have a shot of this Magic Missile wine, really knock you out! That kind of thing.
Qustion I have related to all this is about oils. Nomally definition of creature doesn't include objects, and potion creation feat specifies creatures, nevertheless there's potions that target objects.
RAW establishes that any spell level 1st through 3rd can be made into a potion; provided that the creator has access to the spell (has the spell prepared \ is a known spell), has a casting time of 1 minute or less, targets one or more creatures, and has a range other than personal.
Just wanted to point out that there isn't anything prohibiting you from making a potion with a spell you DON'T know, provided you can handle the DC increase on your Spellcraft check. After all, it's not a spell trigger item like a wand or staff and has similar rules verbiage to all the other non-spell trigger items.