Jon Brazer Enterprises, my company, has been providing support for the Kingmaker AP through our various River Nations books. We have several ideas for how to continue support, but we would like to hear from you.
What kind of additional support would you like? Some ideas we've been kicking around:
- High level NPCs (so your group can go beyond the 6th adventure, all the way to 20th level),
- Average NPCs (shop keepers, random adventuring parties, diplomats, basic citizens),
- Pre-stated encounters with maps (assassination attempts, owlbear attacks, etc),
- More monsters (monsters of the river nations 2),
- Advice on how to draw your own map (so you can use the rules for different locations/environments)
- Pre-stated towns and villages (for your PCs to take over, etc)
- Details for additional nations Pitax, Brevoy and Drelev aren't the only nations around, there's one just past the greenbelt that they can interact with.
- cultists of the hag goddess and rapierlords details. Additional setting details that you may want to incorporate into your game.
Please tell us if any of these seem interesting or if you have some different ideas. We would love to hear your thoughts.
We're only finishing the first book now, but I'll note two things: One, my PCs have taken an unusual interest in Daggermark, and their interest nearly demands that I involve them somehow; and two, that they're interest in expanding the game to twentieth level - we're already in another adventure path that won't take us to twentieth level, and I think they're sick of salivating over capstone abilities they'll never get their hands on.
I'd like to see something about Mivon - it's just down the river from the Stag Lord's camp, it's an obvious ally/enemy/trade partner depending on what the DM wants. Other nearby kingdoms and groups would be good, too, in case players ask the obvious question about what's just past the edge of the map. (Isn't there a gnome city, Jovvox?, nearby.)
NPCs, towns, and villages can be easily adapted from existing generics so I think those would be lower priority for me. (There really aren't many natives here, so there is no unique culture yet that would make a supplement necessary.) Some more cultists might be nice, that's a thread that can go all through the AP, I love behind the scenes action independent of the PCs. Sure, you can take 3 years off to build up your kingdom, but here's what the bad guys are doing during that interval. Especially if there is some way to link them up to kingdom events without bogging down the fast-forward kingdom building that can occur between modules.
More monsters are always fun, especially fey. And variants of existing critters that players already think they know everything about.
And maybe some further expansion of kingdom building. There are house-ruled bits here on the forum, like additional things to do with hexes other than farm or city (lumber camps, locks around un-navigable bits of river) that would be a good starting point for more than you've already done. (Canals? Draining swamps? Use of rivers for trade and transport? Rules for buildings not in city hexes? What to do with spare production when there are more farms than are needed for consumption?) I loved your book on exploration and kingdom building, I'd like to see more. Including more on the role of magic in kingdom building beyond the brief handwaving of maybe reducing the cost of a building by a BP or 2 if the DM feels like it. That's just crying out for more work. And please please if you add buildings add some art so they can be included on a map of a city.
I am now imagining Kingmaker Dwarf Fortress. Why would you make me do that?
And variants of existing critters that players already think they know everything about.
Something like
And maybe some further expansion of kingdom building. There are house-ruled bits here on the forum, like additional things to do with hexes other than farm or city (lumber camps, locks around un-navigable bits of river) that would be a good starting point for more than you've already done. (Canals? Draining swamps? Use of rivers for trade and transport? Rules for buildings not in city hexes?
[snip]
Including more on the role of magic in kingdom building beyond the brief handwaving of maybe reducing the cost of a building by a BP or 2 if the DM feels like it.
All of this is already in the works and is going to go into the print version coming in May. ;)
And please please if you add buildings add some art so they can be included on a map of a city.
I'm sorry but I'm not going to be able to do this. I tried when I first began the project it quickly became obvious that I was not going to be able to do anywhere as good of a job that Paizo had already done and the time/cost involved would have been rather high. I really wanted to do art for buildings, but that is beyond my resources at this time.
Daggermark, Mivon, gnome town, noted.
I hadn't come across these books. Very cool that there is additional Kingmaker material. Once i have read it, I am sure i will have suggestions of stuff i want to see.
I wouldn't even necessarily want that many NPCs with stats; just a paragraph of a farmer here and an innkeeper there would be nice. I'm not worried about balancing them against the PCs, so I can well-enough just say that they're skilled at their profession and if they get in a fight with the PCs they're going to die.
If I were really urged to find a reason for chump NPC stats, I'd probably need a Will save. Maaaaaybe hit points, and that's it. Because when it comes to commonfolk, I'd rather have twice as many personalities without stats, than half as many with them.
Still, once you get into classed characters I get interested again. For example, if my PCs let Grigori live, he's probably going to wind up on their doorstep a few months later with a Daggermark assassin on his heels. Maybe I'm being inobservant but I don't recall any special statistics listed for them.
These are the most interesting suggestions for me:
- Pre-stated encounters with maps (assassination attempts, owlbear attacks, etc),
- Details for additional nations Pitax, Brevoy and Drelev aren't the only nations around, there's one just past the greenbelt that they can interact with.
- cultists of the hag goddess and rapierlords details. Additional setting details that you may want to incorporate into your game.
How about stat blocks for 15 levels of assassins? (CR 6-20) Plus varying ranges for crime lords, bandit leaders/varying bandits, spies/spy groups, arsonists, and random monster attacks? Zombie Uprisings (for countries that make to many graveyards)?
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How about stat blocks for 15 levels of assassins? (CR 6-20) Plus varying ranges for crime lords, bandit leaders/varying bandits, spies/spy groups, arsonists, and random monster attacks? Zombie Uprisings (for countries that make to many graveyards)?
I would absolutely buy fluff about Mivon and the rest of the River Kingdoms. Like the Sword-lords of Mivon the assassin leaders of Daggermark.
Pre-stated encounters with maps (assassination attempts, owlbear attacks, etc),
Details for additional nations - Mivon would be a huge benefit
Also, I saw somewhere that there was a tournament between Mivon and Pitax for control over certain land, and that was the original inspiration for book 5. Stating that competition would be really cool as an alternate to the backdrop of book 5.
What about expanding and crunchifying the Witch Market from the Guide to the River Kingdoms?
What about expanding and crunchifying the Witch Market from the Guide to the River Kingdoms?
Ohhh good idea. Thank you.
Also, I saw somewhere that there was a tournament between Mivon and Pitax for control over certain land, and that was the original inspiration for book 5. Stating that competition would be really cool as an alternate to the backdrop of book 5.
ohhh. Noted.
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Definititely more fluff on Mivon, and the Swordlords of Aldori.
Here's another concept for crunch (but flavorful crunch).
In my campaign, the sootscale kobolds have become "allies" with the PCs. They are living where they were originally found, but 5 years into the cmapaign the kobold tribe - thanks to the security of the PCs nation to help remove the sootscale's enemies - have built up some of its own kingdom.
What I have done is come up with a few "building" substitute/equivalences to those that the PCs build - and how they mirror but differently affect the kingdom.
Hatchery
Slave pen
Warrior Pit (barracks)
Beast Pen (stable)
War totems (monuments)
Harem
etc.
Essentially - a savage humanoid tribe equivalence of the buildings for the PC kingdoms.
(fans of the once-popular computer games Heroes of Might and Magic may see how/where I drew inspiration from for this).
EDIT: Dale - just as I helped contribute something for your River Kingdoms accessory in the way of Events, I would be willing and be thrilled at the chance to collaborate with you on this idea as well.
Robert
Alrighty, I'm working on an assassins supplement due out next month. It's going to covr CR 6-10. Future ones will cover CR 11-15 and 16-20. They cover a range of classes. I currently have a rogue assassin, a witch assassin and a fighter assassin done. They're going to cover a range of races as well. Expect to see humans and elves along side kobolds and drow and minotars and more.
@Robert, I'll send you an email later today.
Definititely more fluff on Mivon, and the Swordlords of Aldori.
Here's another concept for crunch (but flavorful crunch).
In my campaign, the sootscale kobolds have become "allies" with the PCs. They are living where they were originally found, but 5 years into the cmapaign the kobold tribe - thanks to the security of the PCs nation to help remove the sootscale's enemies - have built up some of its own kingdom.
What I have done is come up with a few "building" substitute/equivalences to those that the PCs build - and how they mirror but differently affect the kingdom.
Hatchery
Slave pen
Warrior Pit (barracks)
Beast Pen (stable)
War totems (monuments)
Haremetc.
Essentially - a savage humanoid tribe equivalence of the buildings for the PC kingdoms.
(fans of the once-popular computer games Heroes of Might and Magic may see how/where I drew inspiration from for this).
EDIT: Dale - just as I helped contribute something for your River Kingdoms accessory in the way of Events, I would be willing and be thrilled at the chance to collaborate with you on this idea as well.
Robert
Chief Sootscale is my groups spymaster, so I am pretty sure these would go down well with my group
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Alrighty, I'm working on an assassins supplement due out next month. It's going to covr CR 6-10. Future ones will cover CR 11-15 and 16-20. They cover a range of classes. I currently have a rogue assassin, a witch assassin and a fighter assassin done. They're going to cover a range of races as well. Expect to see humans and elves along side kobolds and drow and minotars and more.
@Robert, I'll send you an email later today.
Okie dokie. Will look for it! :-)
Good luck on your assassin's supplement.
Robert
Special assassination attempts would be interesting as well.
One example is a kingdom event I plan to use during a time when the king is pushing forward controversial orders. One of the king's guards finds a suspicious empty potion bottle in one of the other leaders' belongings along with a box of poisons, and that the king himself appears to be under an Enchantment (Nystul's magic aura).
The guard orders the arrest of the accused leader, and if/when the king belays that order, the guards also demand that the king be imprisoned until such time as he can be brought out of the influence of the enchantment magic. Ideally, there will be an ensuing trial where the leader is accused of treason under threat of death, and elements inside and outside the court seem to be expediting a guilty verdict.
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What kind of additional support would you like? Some ideas we've been kicking around:
- High level NPCs (so your group can go beyond the 6th adventure, all the way to 20th level),
- Average NPCs (shop keepers, random adventuring parties, diplomats, basic citizens),
- Pre-stated encounters with maps (assassination attempts, owlbear attacks, etc),
- More monsters (monsters of the river nations 2),
- Advice on how to draw your own map (so you can use the rules for different locations/environments)
- Pre-stated towns and villages (for your PCs to take over, etc)
- Details for additional nations Pitax, Brevoy and Drelev aren't the only nations around, there's one just past the greenbelt that they can interact with.
- cultists of the hag goddess and rapierlords details. Additional setting details that you may want to incorporate into your game.
Just about everything outside of monsters* sounds good, especially the NPCs and pre-stated towns/encounters.
*Monster books are a dime a dozen, but no one ever seems to publish an NPC book.
Dale,
These two! You can have my first born, although at 36 he is feisty!
-- david
Papa.DRB
PS. the others are nice, but very secondary to the two I would like.
What kind of additional support would you like? Some ideas we've been kicking around:
- Average NPCs (shop keepers, random adventuring parties, diplomats, basic citizens),
- Pre-stated towns and villages (for your PCs to take over, etc)
These two! You can have my first born, although at 36 he is feisty!
*Snort LOL* Awesome man!
Just to let everyone know what's going on right now, I'm finishing up the print version of the Book of the River Nations right now. As in, I'm hoping it'll be ready to ship off to the printer for a test print by tomorrow. After that, I'll be working on reformatting the book for the PDF release and also doing 2 small projects for April release. But after that, Assassins CR 6-10 will be coming out. That may happen in April, but odds are, it'll be May when that comes out. If it does well, we'll do Assassins 11-15 and 16-20 later this year.
I've got the map artwork for the first pre-stated town. I'm going to write it up with GMG and Nation Building stats. I haven't chosen a name for the town yet, but it'll be in the River Nation named Milan, home of the exiled Rapierlords. Set at the northern edge of Milan, it is home to a number of thieves, raiders, and others that frequently cross the border into what use to be unclaimed territory to steal whatever they can get their hands on. Look for that in June. I'd have it for May, but the Traveller players are getting jealous of all the attention I'm paying to Pathfinder lately.
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These two! You can have my first born, although at 36 he is feisty!*Snort LOL* Awesome man!
Just to let everyone know what's going on right now, I'm finishing up the print version of the Book of the River Nations right now. As in, I'm hoping it'll be ready to ship off to the printer for a test print by tomorrow. After that, I'll be working on reformatting the book for the PDF release and also doing 2 small projects for April release. But after that, Assassins CR 6-10 will be coming out. That may happen in April, but odds are, it'll be May when that comes out. If it does well, we'll do Assassins 11-15 and 16-20 later this year.
I've got the map artwork for the first pre-stated town. I'm going to write it up with GMG and Nation Building stats. I haven't chosen a name for the town yet, but it'll be in the River Nation named Milan, home of the exiled Rapierlords. Set at the northern edge of Milan, it is home to a number of thieves, raiders, and others that frequently cross the border into what use to be unclaimed territory to steal whatever they can get their hands on. Look for that in June. I'd have it for May, but the Traveller players are getting jealous of all the attention I'm paying to Pathfinder lately.
I'll be looking for them.
Support for River Nations-wide war: what nations have what troops, potential alliances, potential events that would engulf the region in war, etc.
*Snort LOL* Awesome man!
Your welcome!
Look for that in June. I'd have it for May, but the Traveller players are getting jealous of all the attention I'm paying to Pathfinder lately.
Hmmm.... My guys are about 1/4 thru "Stolen Lands", but we meet every other week, so it will take to June for this to be more useful. Good timing, thanks!
-- david
Papa.DRB
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Just to let everyone know what's going on right now, I'm finishing up the print version of the Book of the River Nations right now. As in, I'm hoping it'll be ready to ship off to the printer for a test print by tomorrow.
cool! Looking forward to this.
Did you send an email to me last week? I haven't seen one and I'm hoping it didn't wind up in the SPAM filter
Robert
I would be very interested in pre-stated towns and villages for the party to encounter and possibly take over, more so than anything else on the list. Average NPCs would also be interesting to me, though I'd prefer fluff and stories to stat blocks.
As far as Low Level NPCs go, would people prefer something like:
Image
Jon Doe
Male human commoner 4
Personality panicky
Quote "Its a DEMON, my lord."
finish out the column with more indepth description of the personality and ways to use them.
Put 2 of these on a page? So you have 10 NPCs in a 5 page set? Does something like this work? More? Less? Good? Bad? Not what you're looking for?
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As far as Low Level NPCs go, would people prefer something like:
Image
Jon Doe
Male human commoner 4
Personality panicky
Quote "Its a DEMON, my lord."finish out the column with more indepth description of the personality and ways to use them.
Put 2 of these on a page? So you have 10 NPCs in a 5 page set? Does something like this work? More? Less? Good? Bad? Not what you're looking for?
For me personally - that's exactly right.
Picture, name, personality, and quote
Include a "goal"/"hook" or two, and it's golden.
Revised:
Image
Jon Doe
Male human commoner 4
Personality panicky
Quote "Its a DEMON, my lord."
Hook Has never actually seen an elf before.
Goal Would love to win the "Catch the Largest Fish" contest next spring
EDIT: I use the Gamemastery random charts a lot for this - especially the hook/goals and overarching personality trait, and I'll sit down and create 10 or so NPCs at once and have the ready to use when I need them. I like the inclusion of a name, pic, and quote - as these are the hardest to manufacture on the spot.
Robert
I'd like to see something equivalent to public works for kingdoms, like sewers and streets, just a little something to add an extra flavor to the cities. It might be interesting to have cities with serious sanitation issues but magically paved streets or a city with muddy rutted streets but a complex magically sustained sewer system with gelatinous cubes and otyughs patrolling the corridors eating garbage and stray people alike. There could be multiple levels of sanitation and road quality from base Middle Ages style all the way up to magically altered. They could be treated as new buildings but their inclusion would go a lot to shape the look and character of a city. Nothing too extreme, because you don't want to penalize people who don't care about sanitation issues or infrastructure, but again, it might give character.
Also, I was wondering if there were a way to include some kind of modifications for the buildings. Say that you wanted to make a building especially high quality or environmentally friendly, there could be something like a template for the building, such as "Finely Crafted" or "Naturally Attuned" that would allow for a greater versatility within the pool of buildings that already exist. I'm not really sure how you'd want it, but I'd think that either a straight BP price addition to a building or a percentage of the cost of the building.
sewers and streets
"Finely Crafted" or "Naturally Attuned"
noted for future potential supplements. Although I am partial to spheres of anniahalation my self but gcubes can be good for low rent cities.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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If it's not too late, can I make a suggestion: create new wandering monster tables incorporating your River Nations monsters into them. The biggest problem I have with most existing wandering monster tables is that the number of possible encounters is so limited. As many checks as are being done in this AP, the more variety the better.
I think all the other ideas are good, as well. Especially the NPC ideas you've discussed.
[Edit] I forgot to ask: do you sell your printed products through any distributors? They look interesting enough to maintain a stock in the store. We sell the Kingmaker AP a lot, and I like having extra options on hand for people to look at.
If it's not too late, can I make a suggestion: create new wandering monster tables incorporating your River Nations monsters into them. The biggest problem I have with most existing wandering monster tables is that the number of possible encounters is so limited. As many checks as are being done in this AP, the more variety the better.
I think all the other ideas are good, as well. Especially the NPC ideas you've discussed.
As far as the random monster tables, we should have included that in the Book of Beasts: Monsters of the River Nations but we didn't. We will be sure to remember that for future monster books.
[Edit] I forgot to ask: do you sell your printed products through any distributors? They look interesting enough to maintain a stock in the store. We sell the Kingmaker AP a lot, and I like having extra options on hand for people to look at.
As a matter of fact, we do. Our print books (Book of Beasts: Monsters of the River Nations [IMP JBE0303] and the upcoming Book of the River Nations: Complete Player's Reference for Kingdom Building [IMP JBE0305], releasing in May) are available through your preferred distributor. We are carried by Impressions so whatever distributor you prefer to order from should be able to obtain copies. Additionally, all our books come with a PDF Guarantee which you can give your customers via Bits and Mortar.
I really appreciate your interest! Thank you!
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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[Edit] I forgot to ask: do you sell your printed products through any distributors? They look interesting enough to maintain a stock in the store. We sell the Kingmaker AP a lot, and I like having extra options on hand for people to look at.As a matter of fact, we do. Our print books (Book of Beasts: Monsters of the River Nations [IMP JBE0303] and the upcoming Book of the River Nations: Complete Player's Reference for Kingdom Building [IMP JBE0305], releasing in May) are available through your preferred distributor. We are carried by Impressions so whatever distributor you prefer to order from should be able to obtain copies. Additionally, all our books come with a PDF Guarantee which you can give your customers via Bits and Mortar.
I really appreciate your interest! Thank you!
Awesome! Thank you. I suppose I could have checked myself, but that would have been too easy. They have the Book of Beasts in stock, so I'll be adding them to my shelves.
Keep us posted on Book of the River Nations.
Dale McCoy Jr what about map support? if we want to continue this EPIC adventure path further or start a new one how do we do that with out maps.
A program or instuctions on how to make makes and put mosters and rescources would be very useful
That's definitely on my to-do list, but I haven't started work on it yet. I'm preoccupied with a few other projects at the moment.premade assassins for every cr from 6-20 is the first thing on my plate. If that does will, the next is high level support. Resistance leaders from the defeated nation of "Pickaxe" and their armies, details on the "Brevic" war, etc. Plus I have a few non-river nations projects that are demanding my attention.
But yes, a map creation guide is something i want to do.
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Jon Brazer Enterprises, my company, has been providing support for the Kingmaker AP through our various River Nations books. We have several ideas for how to continue support, but we would like to hear from you.
What kind of additional support would you like? Some ideas we've been kicking around:
- High level NPCs (so your group can go beyond the 6th adventure, all the way to 20th level),
- Average NPCs (shop keepers, random adventuring parties, diplomats, basic citizens),
- Pre-stated towns and villages (for your PCs to take over, etc)
- Details for additional nations Pitax, Brevoy and Drelev aren't the only nations around, there's one just past the greenbelt that they can interact with.
- cultists of the hag goddess and rapierlords details. Additional setting details that you may want to incorporate into your game.
All the above would be interesting.
I liked Monster of the River Nation but new monsters are easy to get so I haven't included them there.
A possible interesting expansion could be to create a few Factions (like in the Faction Guide) operating in the area.
They would be useful both for players starting the PA giving them factions they can wish to join (for example the Aldori faction supporting the kingdom making attempt) and later other groups that can be friends or foes.
The faction guide give us both a idea of what are the group common resources and how they could interact with the players.
Even if the PC don't join a faction I feel that they could use the faction rules to gauge how friendly they are with the different groups.