We've been discussing the possibility of a Deaf Oracle in an upcoming game, and someone asked about lip reading. I'm not able to find any rules on either lip reading or sign language.
I'm thinking sign language is pretty straightforward, just treat it as an "other" language, cost a point in linguistics to learn it, require a hand or both hands free to speak it and it should work. Perhaps add a sleight of hand check for performing with one hand full.
Lip Reading on the other hand, I'm unclear on. Possibly require a perception check to read the lips, and then a linguistics check to, to cover the number of words that are understood.
Has this come up for anyone else?
We've been discussing the possibility of a Deaf Oracle in an upcoming game, and someone asked about lip reading. I'm not able to find any rules on either lip reading or sign language.
I'm thinking sign language is pretty straightforward, just treat it as an "other" language, cost a point in linguistics to learn it, require a hand or both hands free to speak it and it should work. Perhaps add a sleight of hand check for performing with one hand full.
Lip Reading on the other hand, I'm unclear on. Possibly require a perception check to read the lips, and then a linguistics check to, to cover the number of words that are understood.
Has this come up for anyone else?
Lipreading could be covered by Sense Motive, the same way you use it to intercept secret messages -- albeit, with the additional restriction of having line of sight to the lips being read. As for sign language, seems you already came up with an elegant way of treatign it.
I was intending the perception check to cover whether or not you'll be able to see their lips.
And I should specify, I was partially considering applying this to the party first, with a lower DC and to any one else with a higher DC.
Using sense motive makes a considerable amount of sense.
Without a way for the deaf oracle to communicate with the party, that aspect of the character could quickly become ignored beyond the in-combat mechanic.
Using sense motive makes a considerable amount of sense.
Without a way for the deaf oracle to communicate with the party, that aspect of the character could quickly become ignored beyond the in-combat mechanic.
OOOOOHHHHHH..... *THAT* kind of lipreading! I was thinking reading lips at a distance to eavesdrop. In the case of someone TRYING to have their lips read, yeah, I'd go with a perception roll for normal conversation, and make it a fairly low DC one at that, modified for distractions. If trying to use silent mouthing/lipreading to communicate while being stealthy, use the Secret Message rules for the Bluff skill.
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I just happened to be reading the spell description for zone of silence and noticed the following line:
Note, however, that a successful DC 20 Linguistics check to read lips can still reveal what's said inside a zone of silence.
... which I find odd, because my initial gut feeling would be to go with the Bluff/Sense Motive rules, but there you go.
Maybe lip-reading for a deaf oracle not doing it in a sneaky way would make it a DC 10 check, say.
We've been discussing the possibility of a Deaf Oracle in an upcoming game, and someone asked about lip reading. I'm not able to find any rules on either lip reading or sign language.
I realize this is an older post, and you may have discovered this by now, but the Pathfinder Society rules have an interesting official take on it. You can take a rank in Linguistics to learn Lip Reading. You must speak the same language, be within 10' of the speaker in at least normal light. You can make a Perception check if it is dim light or worse, or if the target is over 10' away at a DC chosen by the GM.
Building a L1 deaf cursed oracle. Yum.
This is one of those PFS house rules, it seems, but ...
What does a deaf PC (or other creature) need to do in order to read lips?
Any PC may learn to read lips with a rank in Linguistics as if they had learned a new language. When reading the lips of a speaking creature within 10 feet in normal lighting conditions, the reader need not make any skill checks. In situations of dim lighting, extreme distances, or to read the lips of someone trying to hide their words from the reader, the reader must make Perception checks (DC determined by the GM based on the situation). A lip reader may only understand spoken words in a language it knows.
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This is one of those PFS house rules, it seems, but ...
What does a deaf PC (or other creature) need to do in order to read lips?
Any PC may learn to read lips with a rank in Linguistics as if they had learned a new language. When reading the lips of a speaking creature within 10 feet in normal lighting conditions, the reader need not make any skill checks. In situations of dim lighting, extreme distances, or to read the lips of someone trying to hide their words from the reader, the reader must make Perception checks (DC determined by the GM based on the situation). A lip reader may only understand spoken words in a language it knows.
I'd go with this. I don't always agree with PFS but this seems solid. Costing a rank of Linguistics is a reasonable way to handle it.
I'd go with this. I don't always agree with PFS but this seems solid. Costing a rank of Linguistics is a reasonable way to handle it.
This is the way I went with the one I'm building. Plus you get the rest of the Linquistics skill benefits, which might come in useful for a support character like an Oracle. And it can fit the RP aspects, particularly if you're an Osirion type.
My elf witch took this as an language. Haven't got to use it yet though.