What does Share Spells Allow?

[Grant Evans]

I have just read through six threads which either started by addressing (or ended up addressing) the question of are the two sentences in Share Spell linked or separate:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/advanced PlayersGuidePlaytest/round2/shareSpellsCanCauseAGargantuanProblem&page= 1&source=search#0

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/shareSpellsNeedsClarificationItsRelatedToThePlaytestIfItMattersAsW ellAsTheCoreGame&page=1&source=search#0

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/summonerSpellQuestion&page=1&source=search#0

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/largeEvolutionEnlargePersonStack&page=1&source=search#14

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/general/summonersAndEidolonYouKiddingMeRight&page=2

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/naturalAttackDamageOffTheCharts&page=1&source=search#27

Each time there are people who are arguing both sides and quite a few have been tagged at least once for FAQ but there has never been an official answer and all are now in Archive folders.

If you, like me, just want an official answer please tag this for FAQ. If there is an offical answer that I have somehow missed feel free to point me to it.

But please don't just have the same debate that can be found on any of these above threads, I think by now we know there is two ways to read the Rules as Written, what we need is to know the Rules as Intended and only a developer can really answer that for us.

PS in case anyone is concerned I am just trying to optimise the reason I want to know is because I want to see if I can use Reduce Person to get large "companions" through tunnels.

[Golden-Esque]

As written, here's how it looks:

"The druid may cast spells with a target of "You" on their animal companion (as a spell with a range of "touch") instead of on him or herself. A druid may cast spells on their animal companion even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (animal). Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants an animal companion. This ability does not allow the animal companion to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."

Here's a quick dissection.

Line #1: A druid can cast spells that normally can only be cast on themselves onto their animal companion; doing so changes the spell's range to touch. For example, a druid can cast beast shape II on their animal companion, using a range of touch instead of its usual range of you.

Line #2: A druid can cast spells that don't normally work on animal creatures on animal creatures.

Line #3: You can't effectively ignore the animal companion's creature type with spells EXCEPT from classes that grant an animal companion.

Line #4: You can't share extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities with share spell, so your animal companion can't take wild shape from you.

So, to answer your questions:

No, you can't cast Reduce Person on an animal companion. Period. As far as I'm aware of, there's no class that gains an animal companion that has Reduce Person on its list. In addition, the rules specifically state that only the animal companion's owner can make use of Share Spells, so if you're trying to cast it on an ally's animal companion, that won't work either.

However, to be honest, this shouldn't even be a concern of yours; have either you or your friend go out and buy a Wand of Reduce Animal. Problem solved without even needing to worry about the Share Spells ability.

[ZappoHisbane]

Golden-Esque wrote:

No, you can't cast Reduce Person on an animal companion. Period. As far as I'm aware of, there's no class that gains an animal companion that has Reduce Person on its list.

But there are classes that have familiars or eidolons that have the Share Spells ability and the Reduce Person spell. Share Spells is not animal-companion-specific. Note the OP said "companions", not companions. ;)

[Grant Evans]

I was being vague to include Animal Companions and Eidolons. So there is a solution for Animal Companions which is good, but still not one for Eidolons.

Also now that I think about it if a Witch can use Reduce Person on her Familiar it becomes even harder to hit and gets a better reflex save which is never a bad thing for a Witches familiar.

[ZappoHisbane]

Grant Evans wrote:

Also now that I think about it if a Witch can use Reduce Person on her Familiar it becomes even harder to hit and gets a better reflex save which is never a bad thing for a Witches familiar.

There are other spells that couldn't normally be cast on others, or on animals/outsiders that make for interesting times as well. Alter Self for instance, if you need to disguise your "companion".

(edited for clarity)

[Silke]

Quote:

Share Spells (Ex)

The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.

This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.

Here are all Summoner spells that have "Target you" and can be cast on your eidolon. None of them are restricted to affecting creatures of a certain type.

Quote:

- Alter Self

- Contact Other Plane
- Dimension Door
- Ethereal Jaunt
- Expeditious Retreat
- Fire Shield
- Glide
- Invisibility
- Invisibility, Greater
- Levitate
- Overland Flight
- Planar Adaptation
- Purified Calling (already shared)
- Read Magic
- See Invisibility
- Shield
- Teleport

If the second sentence stands alone from the first, then presumably you can cast any spell on your eidolon that you can cast on yourself (spells with one or more targets) and is from the Summoner spell list - such as Enlarge Person and Reduce Person.

Until Paizo clarify it in Errata or FAQ, it comes down to individual DM ruling whether Summoner's can share additional spells like Reduce Person. From what I can see the answer is yes - the ability is specifically worded to allow a Summoner to cast Reduce Person on her eidolon.

TIP: OP - your links on Paizo forum are broken because they contain spaces. It is a good idea to put them in notepad, copy it from there into your browser and check the link works. Then you'll know the link stored in notepad can be posted on the forum and will work.

[Propane]

My thoughts are that the intention is that you can cast any spell on your eidolon/familiar that you can cast on yourself.

Hope that helps, Grant.

[Theseus]

So,what about a half-elf oracle ancient lorekeeper with a bonded companion through the nature mystery? I'll be picking up some interesting arcane spells through the lorekeeper. Would I be able to apply those spells to my companion (such as enlarge person or beast shape?)

[BigNorseWolf]

Enlarge person on a familiar or eidolon works. There is no other way to read those words specifically calling it out to do so.