|
There is a problem with the RAW and PFS in regards to a Druid’s animal companion tricks. I’m just going to stick with a Druid in this discussion, but it really goes for any class with an animal companion. Note: The next post in this tread has reference material from the Pathfinder Reference Document and the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. They are placed in a separate post to shorten quoted replies.
A Druid playing his first PFS adventure has an animal companion with one (1) trick, the bonus animal companion trick. That’s it. According to PFS, animal companions don’t come knowing any tricks unless you pick a riding dog or horse. Druids that pick a different animal companion will most likely choose Attack as their one animal companion trick. So by the RAW, the druid must roll a Handle Animal check to “Push” their animal companion to do any other tricks—like Come, Heal, Defend, etc. That’s a DC 25 roll each and every time. Assuming the druid has a Cha 16, you’ll need to roll a 14 or better [+1 skill, +3 class skill, +3 Cha, +4 Druid w/animal companion = +11]. That’s a 65% chance of failure, and you can’t take 10. And, unless they pick Defend as the bonus trick (you already picked attack), the animal companion may not ‘defend’ you as you need to give it instructions to do so.
Defend: The animal defends you, even without any command being given”.
Having a druid make all those Handle Animal rolls during an adventure is not a realistic expectation in a four hour time slot.
After the druids completes his first adventure, by the PFS rules they may attempt to teach their animal companion one trick and only one trick. The rules specifically state a trick, not a task.
Side Note: Also, IMO because Taking 20 represent multiple failures until you get it right and because teaching one trick takes one week time, Taking 20 is not an option for using the Handle Animal skill between adventures. Multiple failures = multiple weeks. If Taking 20 was allowed, there would be no reason to have a Handle Animal roll in plain view of the GM. Even if Taking 20 is allowed, you can still only gain one trick.
So, as our druid begins their second adventure, their animal companion now has two tricks—assuming that they didn’t try to train their animal companion a DC 20 trick and fail. After two adventures, three tricks and after three adventures, our druid’s animal companion now has four tricks. Meanwhile, my ranger has purchased a fully trained riding dog for 150 gp. For now it can outshine the druid’s animal companion. It’s not until the druid reaches 3rd level, six adventures completed, that his animal companion has learned all it’s tricks. And then it dies. Actually, I have seen several animal companions killed. Some GMs believe that it is better to kill the animal companion then the PC at low levels (and I agree).
After this animal death, for adventure number 7 with my 3rd level ranger, I spend 150 gp and I have a new, fully trained, riding dog. One successful Handle Animal roll and the trick Guard becomes Attack II. (side note, I failed this roll three times) For the 3rd level druid, he get’s a new animal companion with two bonus tricks. Yes it’s tougher, stronger, faster, and better at attacking, but it doesn’t know how to use these abilities (tricks). It will be at least six adventures—two levels—before the druid’s animal companion is fully trained. By the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play rules, any time a druid’s animal companion is replaced, it will be at least six adventures before it has learned all it’s tricks.
Now, this rule has a significant benefit: The druid shouldn’t treat his animal companion like a disposable, replaceable, meat-shield. He will take time to invest in it or not have an animal companion at all. But the drawback of six adventures to train the animal companion is huge and I believe, unintended.
I have never seen this rule used in actual play with regards to animal companions. I don’t know why, I just never have. With my ranger, when I was trying to retrain a purchased riding dog, each time I tried, I had to inform the GM what I was trying to do. The GM didn’t really understand, but watched my roll and wrote down my failure.
Here are a few suggestions to change the rules to make them work and keep what I believe is the spirit of the rules.
Spirit of the rules: To have druids use their Handle Animal skill in a meaningful way and to not have animal companions used as disposable meat-shields.
Suggestion 1: A Druid’s animal companion come trained for a purpose, with no known bonus tricks. The druid must train the animal companion any bonus tricks using the Handle Animal skill as these bonus tricks represent bonus trick slots which are empty when the animal companion is acquired. I like this suggestion best because it fully embraces the ‘spirit of the rules’. The druid must invest time and effort to train their animal companion, but the loss of an animal companion is not devastating. Unfortunately, this requires changing core rules regarding animal companions and trick.
Suggestion 2: A Druid’s animal companion comes trained for a purpose. All standard rules apply. This is the simplest suggestion rule-wise but IMO violates the ‘spirit of the rules.’ It cleans up the problem of an animal companion with only one trick, but it creates animal companion meat-shields and almost completely eliminates the need to train or retrain an animal companion. It's an option, but I really prefer Suggestion 1.
Suggestion 3: The druid may attempt to train/retrain an animal companion one trick at the beginning or the end of an adventure, but not both. The choice is up to the druid. This can be used in addition to either of the above suggestions.
Suggestion 4: I would not change the language to include teaching an animal companion a task. I would stick with just one trick. It seems that the basic assumption is about a week or so between adventures. I base that on the amounts PCs can earn from their Day Job rolls. To teach an animal the Combat Riding task would take at least six weeks. This is also why I don’t think you can take 20 on a Handle Animal roll, as ‘multiple failures’ indicates multiple six week periods of time.
I believe the PFS rule for training animal companions is something that is broken and needs to be addressed. I also believe this is something that most GMs don’t think about or would invest much time in.
Edit: Also note that the in the GtPSOP under the question "how many animal companions can you have at one time? The comment: "This means if you’re a Ranger 5/Druid 5, you need to pick which animal companion is your combat animal." which implies that a Ranger 5/Druid 5 has two animal companions is incorrect.
The druid'c class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion ...
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts|
|
References for the above post.
Druid:
Bonus Tricks: The value given in this column is the total number of “bonus” tricks that the animal knows in addition to any that the druid might choose to teach it (see the Handle Animal skill for more details on how to teach an animal tricks). These bonus tricks don't require any training time or Handle Animal checks, and they don't count against the normal limit of tricks known by the animal. The druid selects these bonus tricks, and once selected, they can't be changed.
How can I teach tricks to an animal using Handle Animal?
You can teach any animal a trick so long as you follow the rules for Handle Animal on pages 97–98 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. For the unique purposes of Pathfinder Society, you may attempt to train one animal to do one trick per scenario. A GM must observe your roll—failing this roll means you have to wait until the next scenario to try again. If you succeed on this roll, you must note that your animal gained a trick on the “Conditions Gained” section of that scenario’s chronicle sheet. This means you cannot train an animal until after you’ve completed your first scenario (some classes’ animal companions have exceptions to this rule).Do purchased animals come fully trained or do I have to train them myself ?
The entry for Handle Animal on pages 97–98 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook details which animals come trained—namely, some riding horses and riding dogs have training, but they only come trained to bear a rider into combat. All other animals are subject to Handle Animal to learn additional tricks. See the “Mounts and Related Gear” table on page 159 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook for additional details.
According to PFS, animal companions don’t come knowing any tricks unless you pick a riding dog or horse.
Well, the rules you quote don`t actually say that, y´know.
Who is to say that you haven`t had this Companion for years? The line ¨you may attempt to train one animal to do one trick per scenario¨ doesn`t necessarily mean previous companion training hasn`t happened before the first scenario - that is outside the scope of `per scenario` limitations. You can sign up for boot-camp and they inform you there is a rule `you can only eat one candy bar per week` - but that doesn`t mean you are kicked out for eating 5 candy bars a week for the month before starting.This isn`t really any different than non-PFS play. Druids starting out have a Companion with 1 bonus trick and otherwise standard Handle Animal rules. Everybody I`ve seen play the game makes up a back-story that they`ve been together for a good amount of time, and have tought the max number of tricks to their Companion. This isn`t fundamentally different than having a backstory of being in the military until you deserted for political reasons, you don`t make rolls for that backstory even though you normally would if you playing it out in an adventure.
I`d agree that if a Druid acquires a new Animal Companion, they would start out with only the Bonus Tricks (more at high level), but that is exactly how it works per RAW in normal non-PFS game play.
According to PFS, animal companions don’t come knowing any tricks unless you pick a riding dog or horse.
According to Core Druid rules, they don`t ¨come with¨ any tricks either. Nothing is different here. You`re wanting PFS to spell out something that isn`t spelled out in normal play. PFS never says Animal Companions have not been trained at all prior to play starting, and these are certainly not standard pet-shop animals, as you define their skills and feats. Even for non-Companion `Gear` Animals, I don`t see any reason they couldn`t START with the max tricks if their owner can afford said Animal within starting gold.
Sure, this could be spelled out, especially since they`re alluding to special Animal Companion rules in the first place, but it`s not game-breaking, any more than the existing rules are for non-PFS play. /my2c
|
|
According to PFS, animal companions don’t come knowing any tricks unless you pick a riding dog or horse.According to Core Druid rules, they don`t ¨come with¨ any tricks either. Nothing is different here. You`re wanting PFS to spell out something that isn`t spelled out in normal play. PFS never says Animal Companions have not been trained at all prior to play starting, and these are certainly not standard pet-shop animals, as you define their skills and feats. Even for non-Companion `Gear` Animals, I don`t see any reason they couldn`t START with the max tricks if their owner can afford said Animal within starting gold.
The rules for the Druid state that they need to teach their animal companion the standard tricks. The rules for PFS state that you can only teach an animal companion tricks after adventures. No where is it stated that the animal companion come with all it's tricks at 1st level, or any level. Yes, I would like PFS to clarify that animal companions come with _____ at time of first level or at acquisition or at _______. Fill in the blanks as appropriate.
If an animal companion come fully trained at 1st level (a good quick fix), that still doesn't solve the huge penalty druids receive when they have to replace a lost animal companion at higher levels. Waiting two full levels to completely retrain an animal companion is a bit steep. I think it's out of balance with trying to discourage players from treating animal companions as replaceable meat-shields. In fact, a newly created animal companion with only one or two tricks basically only can attack. It can't track, defend, etc. without being pushed, and you can't take 10 while in initiative.
-Swiftbrook
|
|
If you are replacing a 'lost' companion at higher level and it has an INT of 3, what does it matter? The AC becomes semi-intelligent and self aware, able to select any skill/feat in the CRB. Why would it still require training by its handler?
If it has an Int of 3, you're right. I've always played my animal companions as animals with tricks. I've bumped Str or Dex instead.
|
Okay, so for an AC at the start (level one) I see no reason why it wouldn't start fully trained, just like any other starting character. It is considered part of the druid's (or other) starting "stuff" just like a fighter's bonus feats, or a caster's spells. We don't ask them to "learn" their starting abilities, so why should a druid be punished? However, after start, it is clear that gaining a new AC, whether out of choice or necessity, would require that all the animal handling and training rules be followed. I like this idea because it starts to place some value to not getting your AC killed for the umpteenth time. It might also make the cheesy exchange of optimized AC's at level 4 and again at 7, less common.
|
Hi Swiftbrook. I think that your summary of the situation is pretty good, and agree with the general observation about the unnecessary training tax. The campaign itself makes no assumption about how much time has passed between adventures. Some adventures specifically months of travel during the adventure itself. While I'm sure that someone else will come up with one, I cannot think of another example in the campaign where typical approach to abstracting the passage of time comes into sharp focus, such as in the campaign's training rules for animals.
Your general observation about GM's being uninformed about the training rules is typical, I think, of how most GM's approach animal companions in the first place. This is also captured in your statement:
Having a druid make all those Handle Animal rolls during an adventure is not a realistic expectation in a four hour time slot.
Animal, including companions, require "all those...rolls" ALL the time, even when trained (I'm talking about animals with Int 2). This often is a moot point fairly quickly when the character can tap the skill and auto-roll the 10 needed to command the animal to perform a trick, or due the common application of the Int 3 idea. It tends to fall into the same category as drawing a weapon while moving...it's only at first level tables or with the occasional low level multiclass character that a character doesn't have a +1 BAB, so the rule gets generalized to "It just happens."
I would disagree that taking all those rolls somehow is at odds with a four or five hour time slot, and it isn't a necessary part of your argument.
Swift, I know you played rangers in LG also, as did I. Many players in PFS played LG. The animal training rules worked fairly well there, I thought, with the exception that it was possible to take the "animal flavor of the week" by trading out animals each session, which offends some sensibilities.
For anyone who was involved in the early discussion about the campaign rules, was there a rationale for imposing the training tax on characters with animal companions?
|
wow. thats so sad that they've spoiled a great aspect of multiple classes. it feels like two years since i've played my ranger 12, but I remember sitting down and choosing from a couple of pre-built animal companions that I had, which animal i'd like to take with me since there was at the time complete indifference to animal companions. you lose it, you've got it back the next mod.
Especially when there's a summoner class, who doesn't have to take a skill to handle their Pet, this focus on animals and tricks is kind of ridiculous.
The Ranger animal companion feature, nature's bond, states that it functions like the druid's. to go back and limit their selection of which animals are "appropriate" for a ranger in the PFS guid, when expanded animal options are listed in various supplements to broaden the choices, is annoying.
To cripple a 1st level druid character coming into the game, by taking away their trained animal is just disturbing.
As a DM for PFS, I've never had to question whether an animal companion that is just gained or one that is gained at first level is trained or not: because there is nothing in the druid section that states that the animal companion is untrained. it just states that bonus tricks are above and beyond what are typically known.
as far as i'm concerned that means a 1st level animal companion starts off with 7 tricks, instead of 6. There's nothing in the PFS guide v.4 that contradicts that conclusion. And if they did, I'd just start playing broken summoners because outsiders don't have to deal with this s~#@. You can have a 'naturalistic summoner' that summons an eidolon quadruped that's got better progression and abilities than an animal companion. Is the tricks that an animal companion really breaking the game for anyone ? did i miss a Fireball trick?
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
There are rules variations and vagaries where "the table GM decides" is the right answer.
I don't think this is one of them, and I'd appreciate some sort of guidance as a GM.
A player sits at my table and takes out a figure for her druid's animal companion. One of my first questions is: "What tricks does it know?" because it's a good idea for me to ask before any combat actually starts.
More often than not, the player looks at me blankly, assuming that the animal companion just does whatever the player wants it to do. So, the player then decides to draw up a list of tricks.
And I feel like I would be a crumb-bum to observe that the time for rolling the Training checks was well before she sat at my table. So I let her write down her list, assuming that her druid's succeeded at every roll. I feel like I have to do that, because her previous GMs have let me down.
--
Incidentally, it appears that I'm the only GM in Pathfinder who requires his players to roll a separate initiative for their animal companions; just about everybody else has the animals act on the PCs turn. (Indeed, a few people asserted that such were the game rules as written.) Several animal companions get the feat Improved Initiative. It would be a shame to throw that advantage away.
wow. thats so sad that they've spoiled a great aspect of multiple classes.
[..]
To cripple a 1st level druid character coming into the game, by taking away their trained animal is just disturbing.
I agree; it's pretty dumb. From my experience, I suspect many GMs turn a blind eye and allow an animal companion to come trained at level 1 even though that's expressly against the rules.
|
...And I feel like I would be a crumb-bum to observe that the time for rolling the Training checks was well before she sat at my table. So I let her write down her list, assuming that her druid's succeeded at every roll. I feel like I have to do that, because her previous GMs have let me down.
What bugs me is that they didn't bother to read the rules to begin with.
Incidentally, it appears that I'm the only GM in Pathfinder who requires his players to roll a separate initiative for their animal companions; just about everybody else has the animals act on the PCs turn. (Indeed, a few people asserted that such were the game rules as written.) Several animal companions get the feat Improved Initiative. It would be a shame to throw that advantage away.
Nope, I give players the option.
|
|
I agree; it's pretty dumb. From my experience, I suspect many GMs turn a blind eye and allow an animal companion to come trained at level 1 even though that's expressly against the rules.wow. thats so sad that they've spoiled a great aspect of multiple classes.
[..]
To cripple a 1st level druid character coming into the game, by taking away their trained animal is just disturbing.
I'm actually having trouble finding where on the forums it says that an animal companion DOESN'T come with 6 tricks at 1st level. and they've said that answers on the forums are optional until its placed in the pathfinder society guide. .... so TECHNICALLY... GMs CAN turn a blind eye and let animal companions come into the game with full tricks at first level.
The guide only says that when an animal companion dies, the brand new pet only gets its bonus tricks. Which, even that is fine. because during a mod there is sometimes a 24 hour downtime or time the druid could take to replace a killed pet within the mod. Its really the training rules , 1 trick / mod between games, that's where things break down. A real druid , in a real game, could take a break from adventuring, train up their pet, and then get back to adventuring with the society.
|
|
...And I feel like I would be a crumb-bum to observe that the time for rolling the Training checks was well before she sat at my table. So I let her write down her list, assuming that her druid's succeeded at every roll. I feel like I have to do that, because her previous GMs have let me down.What bugs me is that they didn't bother to read the rules to begin with.
Incidentally, it appears that I'm the only GM in Pathfinder who requires his players to roll a separate initiative for their animal companions; just about everybody else has the animals act on the PCs turn. (Indeed, a few people asserted that such were the game rules as written.) Several animal companions get the feat Improved Initiative. It would be a shame to throw that advantage away.Nope, I give players the option.
i like to give them the option too.
usually i'll just ask them to have their animal companion go on their initiative. reason being: its a swift action to give your animal companion a command. even if its got improved initiative and goes before the druid, it would be acting on its own volition or under the auspice of whatever default command the animal was on ( likely guard ? ).so its faster for me during most combats to skip all that , hand wave it, and have the druid just start directing the animal on his/her turn. things only get messed up from there when the druid readies or delays =P
|
|
Yeah, animal companions are a bit weird. My wife has a summoner with an eidolon so there are no issues with directing it, it has a brain of it's own yet she still has a lot of GMs who insist on her running both character and eidolon on the same turn which frustrates her.
Having the companion/ eidolon who doesn't get actions of it's own also robs it of the ability to act in the surprise round. Your super fast, super alert guard dog has to wait until his slow druid buddy can act.
|
|
Has anyone figured this out yet? I want my Ranger to be legal for society play but no one can figure out if animal companions need to be trained to do...everything or not.This has been answered in another thread. If you do a search, it shouldn't be hard to find the thread, but the official answer was that you don't have to train your "bonus" tricks. The AC automatically knows the bonus tricks. Everything else, yes, you have to train. Animal companions with an Int of 3 or higher can select from a wider list of skills and feats, and have more tricks, but are still animals, so still require handle animal checks in order to perform their tricks.
EDIT: will try to link here...
Go to link
I'm fine having to train it, I'm just trying to understand the rules, there's lots of conflicting answers.
So, I get the animal companion, it comes with automatic bonus tricks, but I need to train it if I want to use it for a general purpose.
When asking an animal companion to perform a trick that it knows it's DC 10 handle animal (free action), DC 25 if it doesnt know the trick (Standard action).
If my Animal Companion is level 3, how many slots does combat training take up in it's trick allotment?
Thanks in advance, I'm not complaining about the rules, I just want to get it straight.
|
|
So, I get the animal companion, it comes with automatic bonus tricks, but I need to train it if I want to use it for a general purpose.
Sort of. You need to train it for any additional tricks, one at a time. The general purpose suites (which are just groups of tricks) aren't used as a training mechanism in PFS. You can train the individual tricks of the combat training suite, mixing and matching with bonus tricks and trained tricks. Since the suite has 6 tricks, it takes up 6 slots of your animals 6+bonus tricks (assuming Int 2).
When asking an animal companion to perform a trick that it knows it's DC 10 handle animal (free action), DC 25 if it doesnt know the trick (Standard action).
Almost. Pushing your animal companion is a move action, not a standard action. Remember that for the free action DC10 tricks that your GM may permit multiple attempts.
|
|
So, I get the animal companion, it comes with automatic bonus tricks, but I need to train it if I want to use it for a general purpose.Sort of. You need to train it for any additional tricks, one at a time. The general purpose suites (which are just groups of tricks) aren't used as a training mechanism in PFS. You can train the individual tricks of the combat training suite, mixing and matching with bonus tricks and trained tricks. Since the suite has 6 tricks, it takes up 6 slots of your animals 6+bonus tricks (assuming Int 2).
When asking an animal companion to perform a trick that it knows it's DC 10 handle animal (free action), DC 25 if it doesnt know the trick (Standard action).Almost. Pushing your animal companion is a move action, not a standard action. Remember that for the free action DC10 tricks that your GM may permit multiple attempts.
Thanks to both of you, it's finally making sense. So my level 3 Ankylosaurus can have 8 tricks total, Combat Training takes 3. I'm guessing you cant "take 10" in Combat, but once I have a modifier high enough I'll still need to roll in the event of rolling a 1?
|
|
Thanks to both of you, it's finally making sense. So my level 3 Ankylosaurus can have 8 tricks total, Combat Training takes 3. I'm guessing you cant "take 10" in Combat, but once I have a modifier high enough I'll still need to roll in the event of rolling a 1?
A natural 1 does not automatically fail skill checks, so one you have a +9 bonus, you no longer need to roll for a DC 10.
|
|
Thanks to both of you, it's finally making sense. So my level 3 Ankylosaurus can have 8 tricks total, Combat Training takes 3.
When your druid is level 3, his ankylosaurus can have 8 tricks (6 for Int 2 plus 2 bonus tricks), yes. However, the tricks of combat training consist of attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel; 6 total tricks, not 3. Each trick either needs to be a bonus trick, or you need to train it, one trick per adventure.
|
|
When your druid is level 3, his ankylosaurus can have 8 tricks (6 for Int 2 plus 2 bonus tricks), yes. However, the tricks of combat training consist of attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel; 6 total tricks, not 3. Each trick either needs to be a bonus trick, or you need to train it, one trick per adventure.
FWIW, make sure you take Attack II or the Attack trick twice. Then you animal companion will attack unnatural enemies without needing to be pushed.
-Swiftbrook
|
|
When your druid is level 3, his ankylosaurus can have 8 tricks (6 for Int 2 plus 2 bonus tricks), yes. However, the tricks of combat training consist of attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel; 6 total tricks, not 3. Each trick either needs to be a bonus trick, or you need to train it, one trick per adventure.FWIW, make sure you take Attack II or the Attack trick twice. Then you animal companion will attack unnatural enemies without needing to be pushed.
-Swiftbrook
Thanks everybody, I feel much better.
Where do I find the ATtack II or the Attack twice trick? I'm not seeing it in the core rulebook.
|
|
Where do I find the ATtack II or the Attack twice trick? I'm not seeing it in the core rulebook.
Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks.
-Swiftbrook
|
|
Where do I find the ATtack II or the Attack twice trick? I'm not seeing it in the core rulebook.Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks.-Swiftbrook
Thanks, so If I trained it to attack (1 trick) then taught it to attack "all creatures" (2 tricks) so it's 3 tricks total?
|
|
Thanks, so If I trained it to attack (1 trick) then taught it to attack "all creatures" (2 tricks) so it's 3 tricks total?Where do I find the ATtack II or the Attack twice trick? I'm not seeing it in the core rulebook.Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks.-Swiftbrook
No. 2 tricks total:
Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You
may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal
to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal
will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids,
giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all
creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead
and aberrations) counts as two tricks.
I read this as one trick slot = attack "normal" enemy types. Add another slot to Attack, and it will be able to made to attack almost anything without having to push.
Then again, I have a 3.5E background, where this was spelled out a little more clearly...
|
Incidentally, it appears that I'm the only GM in Pathfinder who requires his players to roll a separate initiative for their animal companions; just about everybody else has the animals act on the PCs turn.
I used to do this too, Chris, but I found it annoyed *other* players in addition to confusing and/or frustrating the druid/ranger player, so I stopped. I do agree the player is losing some advantage from going on two separate initiatives, but whatchagonnado?
|
|
Incidentally, it appears that I'm the only GM in Pathfinder who requires his players to roll a separate initiative for their animal companions; just about everybody else has the animals act on the PCs turn.I used to do this too, Chris, but I found it annoyed *other* players in addition to confusing and/or frustrating the druid/ranger player, so I stopped. I do agree the player is losing some advantage from going on two separate initiatives, but whatchagonnado?
With my ranger and animal companion I've done this both ways. Generally, I ask the GM. What I have found that works is roll perception & initiative for both but run my companion on my turn. I still have to direct my AC even if it is a free action. Also, by having it roll it's own initiative and perception, if he beats the bad guy and I don't, I get extra help in the surprise round. Remember 'Defend' doesn't require any instructions from the handler.
-Swiftbrook