Hello, all! I've been following pretty closely on a lot of the eidolon discussion (and I'm well aware there's 5,042 new "Summoner is b0rken lol wtfbbq plox" topics created every day), and I've decided I want to play one for an upcoming roleplaying-heavy campaign. (It is my belief that the Summoner class is NOT broken, as long as the player and DM are well-versed on the rules and nothing is fudged. And I have little interest in min/maxing my character as it is.) I just have a few questions to make sure of before I make my character.
1. As far as I can tell, eidolons do NOT gain max HP on their first Hit Die (as the max HP rule only applies to PC classes). Has there been any official word on whether this was intended?
2. Again, as far as I can tell, there's no way to change an eidolon's base form after it's chosen. Has there been any official word on that either? Does anyone know whether this would be a gamebreaker to allow? (Basically, for thematic reasons, I want my eidolon to start as a biped and later become a quadruped.)
3. The Mount evolution can only be applied to an eidolon with the quadruped or serpentine base form. What if you have a biped that is later given addition limbs (legs)? It seems the answer is no, but would that be a gamebreaker? Once again, it's for thematic reasons, and probably not necessary (as I don't plan on riding my eidolon in combat), but still.
4. An eidolon naturally gains a bonus to natural armor, which, according to the description, may be allocated to either an armor bonus or natural armor bonus as the player sees fit (though eidolons cannot wear actual armor). Is there any advantage to allocating it to an armor bonus? The only reason it would make a difference (that I can think of) is when an enemy has a brilliant energy weapon, in which case the armor bonus would be useless (and you'd be better off leaving it all as natural armor). Any thoughts?
5. The Reach evolution says it grants Reach to one attack. If the eidolon has two claws (such as from being a biped), do both claws gain reach, or is one claw longer than the other?
I'll probably have more, but that's all for now.
1. As far as I can tell, eidolons do NOT gain max HP on their first Hit Die (as the max HP rule only applies to PC classes). Has there been any official word on whether this was intended?
To my knowledge you don't max them out. They have no heroic PC levels, which is kind of a requirement.
2. Again, as far as I can tell, there's no way to change an eidolon's base form after it's chosen. Has there been any official word on that either? Does anyone know whether this would be a gamebreaker to allow? (Basically, for thematic reasons, I want my eidolon to start as a biped and later become a quadruped.)
I suspect you can change it at level ups and with certain spells. It used to be prohibtied in the playtest, but that text was removed. I'm sure someone will disagree with me.
3. The Mount evolution can only be applied to an eidolon with the quadruped or serpentine base form. What if you have a biped that is later given addition limbs (legs)? It seems the answer is no, but would that be a gamebreaker? Once again, it's for thematic reasons, and probably not necessary (as I don't plan on riding my eidolon in combat), but still.
It is technically against RAW, but I recommend following the rule of cool here.
4. An eidolon naturally gains a bonus to natural armor, which, according to the description, may be allocated to either an armor bonus or natural armor bonus as the player sees fit (though eidolons cannot wear actual armor). Is there any advantage to allocating it to an armor bonus? The only reason it would make a difference (that I can think of) is when an enemy has a brilliant energy weapon, in which case the armor bonus would be useless (and you'd be better off leaving it all as natural armor). Any thoughts?
There is ZERO reason to allocate it as an armor bonus. Making it natural allows things to stack SO much better (like amulet of natural armor, mage armor, etc.)
5. The Reach evolution says it grants Reach to one attack. If the eidolon has two claws (such as from being a biped), do...
All claw attacks get the reach. I've never heard of a creature with identical attack forms at different reach distances.
Thanks for the prompt reply (and of course I'd appreciate any further insight anyone else can give me). I have a couple more question I just remembered.
6. I can't remember off the top of my head, but if you give an eidolon gear, does that gear stay with the eidolon when it's de-summoned (whether it's from damage or not), or does the gear fall to the ground wherever it was standing? Does it matter if the gear is magical or not?
7. This is a stupid question that I should have been able to find the answer to, but oh well. Does an eidolon disappear at 0 hp, or does it fall to negatives like a PC?
3 they specifically gave certain evolutions to certain base forms. mount is no different from pounce etc. giving mount to a viper wouldn't be a game breaker but there needs to be a disadvantage to certain forms and that's one for the booed.
4 only reason currently to give your eidolon an armor bonus is for stylistic reasons but mechanically none at all.
5 if a weapon comes in a pair like claws all the weapons on the pair get reach. but if you say had limbs x2 claws x2 reach x1 only one pair of claws gets reach.
6 the gear falls to the ground, it doesn't matter if it's magical
7 the eidolon disappears at it's negative in con. ALOT of the board builds use diehard on the eidolon and summoner.
though we always had summoned creatures disappear at 0 and the firs person to play one in our group did it he used lifeline ton prevent it from looting at that point. we may have been doing it wrong.
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4) You put it all on natural armor, or else you are overlapping with a simple mage armor spell and losing AC.
6) There have been arguments both ways. IT comes down to GM choice. I have suggested that the item becomes "owned" and travels with the eidolon after it has been worn 24 hours. Therefore, the summoner has to make a special effort and pull an "all nighter" without sleep in order to bond an item with the eidolon.
Thanks for the replies, everyone. (I just realized the negative HP thing is spelled out, in plain english, right in the Eidolon description.) Another question, though.
8. Does an eidolon need to eat, drink, and sleep as a normal creature does? If so, what happens when it's unsummoned and re-summoned?
8. Does an eidolon need to eat, drink, and sleep as a normal creature does? If so, what happens when it's unsummoned and re-summoned?
I recall somewhere that outsiders typically don't need to do that all stuff.
Lots of info, guys. Thank you! One more though:
9. When rolling initiative, do you roll separately for the summoner and eidolon, or one roll and they both go on the same initiative?
Lots of info, guys. Thank you! One more though:
9. When rolling initiative, do you roll separately for the summoner and eidolon, or one roll and they both go on the same initiative?
The rules are silent. But most people rule that they go at same time.
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2.
A summoner begins play with the ability to summon to his side a powerful outsider called an eidolon. The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature.
I have had people link this before, and state that "aspect of the same creature" refers to the base form.
5. Ravingdork answered this one. Hail the Ravingdork. Love the Ravingdork. The Ravingdork is goodness personified.
8. When summoned, it poops on you.
9. In PFS, I usually just go at the same time my Eidolon goes. Makes it a bit easier to keep track of, and there are some particularly nasty little combos you can do. For instance, I usually resort to shooting a crossbow into combat, but I didnt take "Precise Shot" feat, thus I am normally -4 to my action. However with proper positioning and "Push" evolution, I can have my Eidolon hit something, push it away from combat 5 foot, and then shoot with my Crossbow without having the -4.
I am lovin' this class.
While the rules are silent, it makes sense that the creature gets his own init since he has an int of 7. He doesn't need any direction to do anything like the usual companion that has an int less than 3.
Familiars get up to an int of 15, yet they typically still go at the same time.
You can have the Eidolon go at its own initiative, but it's a very common houserule that all pets/familiar/companions/followers/cohorts etc go at the initiative of the player that "controls" it.
It makes things go much faster around the table, as you don't have to jump back and forth from player to player.