My number one issue is the whole Western theme to the character...with grit powers and such. When I envision a guntoting fantasy character I see The Three Musketteers, pirates, and to a certain extent Hawkeye from the Last of the Mohicans....not John Wayne. And I can do those with existing classes with some help from new feats that make using guns useful.
Which leads to my next point on all of the proposed Ultimate Combat Classes....all of them are pretty much class archtypes with delusions of being core classes. The whole idea of the class archtypes was a very good one....why is Pazio seemingly abandoning it? I mean two the classes, Samurai and Ninja, to me seem to pretty much work exactly like Cavaliers and Rogues, why do we need a full base class for them?
I can sorta see ninjas...as they seem to combine two class( Rogue and Monk)....but still I would perfer to see all the classes be rewriotten as class archtypes and something new created that is really hard to do with the existing classes. Maybe a viable Dex based melee fight sorta like the Swashbuckler. Or something else.
There have been several threads on both the issue with the themes and the archetype vs alternate class issues. Do we really have to go into these again?
There have been several threads on both the issue with the themes and the archetype vs alternate class issues. Do we really have to go into these again?
I could not really see a thread devoted to it....sure I have seen commets within threads...but to me it was not the topic of the thread and I am strange in the way I like to not derail threads. Also I think it should be gone though again and again. This is a playtest...things should be reviewed a million times.
If you don't find the topic on interest don't post. It is a real complaint I have about the Ultimate Combat book...sorry If I wanting to be heard some how offends you.
There have been several threads on both the issue with the themes and the archetype vs alternate class issues. Do we really have to go into these again?I could not really see a thread devoted to it....sure I have seen commets within threads...but to me it was not the topic of the thread and I am strange in the way I like to not derail threads. Also I think it should be gone though again and again. This is a playtest...things should be reviewed a million times.
If you don't find the topic on interest don't post. It is a real complaint I have about the Ultimate Combat book...sorry If I wanting to be heard some how offends you.
You didnt look very hard:
Flavor setting issues
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/gunslinger/theClassNameGunslinger
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/gunslinger/doesntAnyoneAgreeGunsInPathfinderDDIsB ad
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/gunslinger/theFantasyPartOfAFantasyGunslinger
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/gunslinger/theRoleOfGunsOrWhatIfIDontWantToBeAVaq uero
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/ninja/canWeChangeTheNameOfTheNinjaAndAFewOtherThi ngs
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/ninja/whatsInAName
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/ninja/iMustObject
Archetype vs alternate class vs base class
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/gunslinger/scrappingTheIdeaOfGunslingerAsAnArchet ype
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/gunslinger/gunslingerAsAlternateClassOfFighterCre atesFurtherProblems
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/samurai/alternateClass
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/ultimateCombatPlaytest/samurai/samuraiIsAnAlternateCavalier
I have no problem with you being heard, but starting a completely new thread on issues that have been heavily hashed means those same arguments will come out again. Add your voice to some of the existing ones, and you can also read what people had to say on the subject.
The problem is how they set up the boards for this. My complaint is geared towards one or the other but effects all three of the classes. I'll look them over but from the titles they seem to me to be about one class. Since my arguement is the same for all three why do I have to state it in 3 different boards when it just comes to one point. This play test really just needs a general topic board.
But I'll post on those others...it is just in my opinion more of a hassle...
|
My opinion is that these are not archetypes but rather alternate classes.
Essentially Samurai and Ninja are like the Antipaladin. It COULD have been done with archetypes, but was fully statted out as a base class.
So essentially there are three types of classes: base class, archetypes, and alternates.
I think these three as standards works quite well.
You use the base class whenever you have a clear new concept of niche idea. You use archetypes when you just need to tweak a base class to fit a role, and you use an alternate class when there is a bit more flavor change and more mechanics to be altered.
Going from west to east seems like a big flavor change, and there are some mechanics changed as well. So, for me an alternate class seems the logical thing to do.
So, I think that people who dislike the Samurai and Ninja classes probably dislike the Antipaladin as well, since it is essentially an archetype of the Paladin.
Ok I got what you guys are saying(completely forgot about the example of anti-paladin...). Lookimh at it in the light I guess I understand it better....though I think gunslinger needs alot more work...anyway.
Does this mewan Ultimate Combat will have a new base class?