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Hey everyone, we decided to record our first session, the adventure "Master of the Fallen Fortress", and I started a channel at http://www.youtube.com/user/houstonpathfinder to upload these videos to. We'll record each of our Thursday Society games, as well as any future home PF campaigns I end up starting or joining. Last nights adventure should be completely uploaded by the end of today. Please feel free to subscribe to us, and comment on how we're doing (or how we're screwing up :).
I'll check it out. Thanks!
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I've only watched the first post so far and plan on watching them all. I'm always interested to see how others play. I posted this on the channel, but thought I'd throw it on here as well. I'm not sure if you're looking for suggestions, but I noticed something that I wanted to point out.
I would try to avoid initiative before there is a clear threat. Once the players see the enemy, or are certain that an enemy is coming after them, you can roll it; otherwise the players are left in this weird meta-gamey situation where they know since they rolled initiative there is an enemy, but they can't really do anything yet because it is not physically present. Plus, players who luck out with high initiatives end up being cheated because they cannot capitalize on the quick reaction to a threat. 
This is 100% opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt. Its just the initiative thing is a pet-peeve of mine at Cons. Especially if I'm high on the initiative and can't use it. I feel like initiative is for when combat is... well... initiated.
Thanks for taking the time to upload the videos!
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I've only watched the first post so far and plan on watching them all. I'm always interested to see how others play. I posted this on the channel, but thought I'd throw it on here as well. I'm not sure if you're looking for suggestions, but I noticed something that I wanted to point out.
I would try to avoid initiative before there is a clear threat. Once the players see the enemy, or are certain that an enemy is coming after them, you can roll it; otherwise the players are left in this weird meta-gamey situation where they know since they rolled initiative there is an enemy, but they can't really do anything yet because it is not physically present. Plus, players who luck out with high initiatives end up being cheated because they cannot capitalize on the quick reaction to a threat. 
This is 100% opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt. Its just the initiative thing is a pet-peeve of mine at Cons. Especially if I'm high on the initiative and can't use it. I feel like initiative is for when combat is... well... initiated.
Thanks for taking the time to upload the videos!
That's a valid point, but I do it the opposite. I ask for initiatives even when there isn't a combat so that initiative isn't a dead giveaway to start attacking something. I also ask for perception checks a room or two ahead of any hidden creatures to reduce meta-gaming.
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That's a valid point, but I do it the opposite. I ask for initiatives even when there isn't a combat so that initiative isn't a dead giveaway to start attacking something. I also ask for perception checks a room or two ahead of any hidden creatures to reduce meta-gaming.I've only watched the first post so far and plan on watching them all. I'm always interested to see how others play. I posted this on the channel, but thought I'd throw it on here as well. I'm not sure if you're looking for suggestions, but I noticed something that I wanted to point out.
I would try to avoid initiative before there is a clear threat. Once the players see the enemy, or are certain that an enemy is coming after them, you can roll it; otherwise the players are left in this weird meta-gamey situation where they know since they rolled initiative there is an enemy, but they can't really do anything yet because it is not physically present. Plus, players who luck out with high initiatives end up being cheated because they cannot capitalize on the quick reaction to a threat. 
This is 100% opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt. Its just the initiative thing is a pet-peeve of mine at Cons. Especially if I'm high on the initiative and can't use it. I feel like initiative is for when combat is... well... initiated.
Thanks for taking the time to upload the videos!
I suppose if your players know that you use the two dice rolls in unexpected ways, it would avoid the "I ready an action" trap. People would likely continue in the same fashion until the initiatives matter. That said, as a player I would feel pretty stubborn about being high on the initiative with nothing to attack. My stubbornness would turn into frustration if I rounded a corner and ended up getting attacked. In my mind a character with a high initiative is supposed to be quick to react to combat situations... if I have to act when no monsters are around and then they show up later in the initiative and capitalize on the fact that I had no targets, I'd be upset. Having initiative rolled with no combat situation denies the character the perk of being quick to respond to danger.
All of that said-- I like the perception check idea quite a bit. Just not the initiative.
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Hey everyone, we decided to record our first session, the adventure "Master of the Fallen Fortress", and I started a channel at this link to upload these videos to.
Linked
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Yeah, I want to stress that I'm just pointing out my preference and why. Folks should do what suits their play-style.
Jeremy, the problem is that, sometimes, even with not rolling until "combat starts" can still wind up leaving the player(s) who rolled well screwed.
Suppose you roll well on initiative, but, because you don't roll well enough on perception, you get "stuck" going early, but not having a legal target?
Or because an action performed sets off the encounter. Should the GM automatically give the creature(s) who respond to X event happening the highest initiative without rolling? Or just make it a surprise round?
"Okay, Bob just passed the middle of this area, so I need you all to roll initiatives. Oh, and give me a perception roll, as well."
"Okay, Jeremy, you have an initiative of 26, and a perception of 20. You get to go first. What you see is exactly what is on the map at this time. What do you do?"
Been there, had to run that. Monsters with low initiatives, but had basically taken a lot of time before the PCs arrived to hide, so that the DC to actually notice them before they acted was out of the range of all but the dedicated perception monkey, and he only has a 25% chance of seeing them in their hiding place(s).
Sometimes, it is unavoidable.
Some GMs use initiative to determine who can respond first to a situation, even a non-combat one. It's a fair way of handling when three or so players and say "I want to..." at the same time.
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I don't do this on a regular basis, but I have experimented with getting the players to roll initiative immediately after a fight. We don't stay in "initiative time", but when the time comes, I can just ask the first player what they want to do. It helps cut down on the (perhaps unconscious) metagaming that goes with rolling initiative.
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Why would the players be 'in initiative' if they don't see anything?
There should be a surprise round if one party is aware and the other isn't.
How about if the PC makes his Perception check to know something is hinky, and rolls a high initiative, but the bad guy hasn't arrived yet?
"Okay, Initiative count 19 is your PC, Kevin. What do you do?"
Creatures: Among the pile of bones is a single human
skeleton, animated by the necrotic energy that arose in
the catacombs after Asad fatally trapped his soldiers here.
The skeleton begins prone under the bones, lying still as
it awaits sentient intruders into its lair, which grants it a
+4 bonus on Stealth checks to hide from the PCs. It begins
combat by rising from the pile and attacks the nearest
creature until all targets are dead or it is destroyed. This
skeleton has neither the armor nor the scimitar listed in
the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary description.
So, if someone makes their Perception roll before the skeleton moves, do they get to attack the skeleton, or is it still a difficult to pinpoint target? It hasn't moved, and it is buried in amongst other bones. So, does it get cover from the bones on top of it? Does it get concealment by lying in amongst the similar bones? Does it get both?
Or do you start the combat at the skeleton's initiative, since there isn't an enemy until it acts?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I was replying mostly to your statement above about failing a perception check:
Suppose you roll well on initiative, but, because you don't roll well enough on perception, you get "stuck" going early, but not having a legal target?
If some characters failed their perception checks, there should be a surprise round and the characters who failed their checks don't act at all.
If they made their perception checks then they are aware of the enemy and can act. If you don't know exactly where it is then you could ready an action, cast a spell in preparation, move into position, run away, or whatever. You aren't ever screwed because you have the option.
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Yes, but those who win high initiatives get to Ready or Delay.
And they are not caught flat-footed. re: the characters getting higher initiatives and decent perception rolls before the monsters move, how many times in movies have you seen a heroic character stop in his tracks, mutter "Something isn't right here." and pull his weapon just prior to all Hell breaking loose as his group is attacked.
I think that kind of falls into this situation. You could tell the player, "While you can't perceive a clear and present threat, something is telling you that it's naturally quiet/a great place for an ambush/not quite right. You anticipate trouble." The player could then delay or ready as Mr. Walker pointed out.