I want a Slicer Beetle combat mount. How might I go about training mindless vermin to work as such within the existing rules?
I want a Slicer Beetle combat mount. How might I go about training mindless vermin to work as such within the existing rules?
You can't, AFAIK. You can't even awaken it, which is kind of stupid since you can awaken trees.
IF you COULD get one with an Int of 1 or 2, you could train it with Handle Animal, at a +5 DC.
There's no feat or prestige class or anything?
Than how the hell do all those evil insect riding NPCs do it?
There's no feat or prestige class or anything?
Than how the hell do all those evil insect riding NPCs do it?
Its all in the goatee.
Vermin Heart
You have a special bond with things that creep, crawl, skitter, and sting.
Prerequisite: Wild empathy class feature.
Benefit: You may target vermin with spells and special abilities that only affect animals (although they are still affected by spells targeting vermin as well). You may use wild empathy to influence vermin as easily as you influence animals.
from the apg.
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Play as a Mite, they get vermin empathy. Or just create an archetype that allows it like my Vermin Shaman
There have been several feats throughout 3.5 allowing the training of vermin, you can make a feat up or just give the skill a big penalty with vermin.
Not really a big fan of the int 0 rule anyway, the only thing it really says it has an alien mindset ruled mostly by instinct. While I mostly agree, the int 0 score makes it come over like they do not think in any capacity at all.
There's no feat or prestige class or anything?
Than how the hell do all those evil insect riding NPCs do it?
Its all in the goatee.
Vermin Heart
You have a special bond with things that creep, crawl, skitter, and sting.
Prerequisite: Wild empathy class feature.
Benefit: You may target vermin with spells and special abilities that only affect animals (although they are still affected by spells targeting vermin as well). You may use wild empathy to influence vermin as easily as you influence animals.
from the apg.
So you need to take that, then cast Awaken on the vermin, then "train" it (or rather get it to accept a rider). Since skills aren't special abilities.
So you need to take that, then cast Awaken on the vermin, then "train" it (or rather get it to accept a rider). Since skills aren't special abilities.
Skill use isn't a special ability, but animal companion is. And since you need animal empathy to get the trait anyway you just need to hug some trees and then you get your giant beetle.
Skill use isn't a special ability, but animal companion is. And since you need animal empathy to get the trait anyway you just need to hug some trees and then you get your giant beetle.So you need to take that, then cast Awaken on the vermin, then "train" it (or rather get it to accept a rider). Since skills aren't special abilities.
Yeah, but then you can only have it as a druid or a 4th + level ranger. If the feat had allowed skill use, you could have druids training them for others to ride.
So you need to take that, then cast Awaken on the vermin, then "train" it (or rather get it to accept a rider). Since skills aren't special abilities.There's no feat or prestige class or anything?
Than how the hell do all those evil insect riding NPCs do it?
Its all in the goatee.
Vermin Heart
You have a special bond with things that creep, crawl, skitter, and sting.
Prerequisite: Wild empathy class feature.
Benefit: You may target vermin with spells and special abilities that only affect animals (although they are still affected by spells targeting vermin as well). You may use wild empathy to influence vermin as easily as you influence animals.
from the apg.
I'm not sure awaken would work in this case as Vermin Heart clearly states that it works on spells that ONLY effect animals. Awaken effects animals AND trees. As such it is not an applicable spell.
I want a Slicer Beetle combat mount. How might I go about training mindless vermin to work as such within the existing rules?
Blight Druids (APG) automatically get Vermin Empathy. I'm actually playing one through that Serpent's Skull adventure path.
Between us though, they were kind of lazy and didn't fully flesh out the Blight Druid. He's all about vermin... but doesn't get vermin heart? I can diplomy a giant wasp, but I can't turn into one?
We houseruled that the Blight Druid effectively replaces all references to 'animal' with vermin. So I can cast speak with vermin/ charm vermin, but not speak/charm animal. My wild shape lets me turn into a vermin of X size, but I can't be an animal (unless it's a creature that's just a big smart vermin, like a dire rat/bat... I could probably swing an armadillo if I'm carrying leprosy)
House rule training verminAssuming you have a blight druid, or a druid/ranger with vermin heart, he can train a vermin. For the maximum number of tricks it can learn, treat the vermin as having +1 int for a small or smaller vermin, or +2 int for a medium or larger vermin.
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So you need to take that, then cast Awaken on the vermin, then "train" it (or rather get it to accept a rider). Since skills aren't special abilities.
What the hell is going on!? I posted a response to this post, it clearly went through (the page loaded fine and I saw it posted), and I come back later and it's GONE!
This is like the third time this week these forums have done that. WHAT THE HELL MAN!?
*ahem*
I had originally posted: "I don't believe awakening vermin would work as Vermin Heart specifically states it applies to spells that ONLY work with animals, whereas Awaken applies to animals AND plants. As such, I believe they are incompatible."
I had originally posted: "I don't believe awakening vermin would work as Vermin Heart specifically states it applies to spells that ONLY work with animals, whereas Awaken applies to animals AND plants. As such, I believe they are incompatible."
Oh god that is stupid >.<'.
I'm glad I don't play RAW when it comes to these kinds of things.
To hell with this! I'm getting my slug mount!
Charge!
...
...
...
Continue Charge!
To hell with this! I'm getting my slug mount!
Charge!
......
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Continue Charge!
Made me lol!
I wonder what the DC to track your knight would be... A +10 bonus on tracking attempts due to slime, but always half normal speed due to slime? XD
To hell with this! I'm getting my slug mount!
Charge!
......
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Continue Charge!
I lol'd.
Rules for vermin companion and familiars and things like that will be in "Ultimate Magic," I believe.
Yup.
Rules for vermin companion and familiars and things like that will be in "Ultimate Magic," I believe.Yup.
Woot! So how did all those NPCs manage without the book? I'm seeing vermin mounts/companions all over modules and stuff.
Creative Director
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Woot! So how did all those NPCs manage without the book? I'm seeing vermin mounts/companions all over modules and stuff.Rules for vermin companion and familiars and things like that will be in "Ultimate Magic," I believe.Yup.
Pre Pathfinder, there were feats and such that were featured in other products, including Vermin Companion (allowed a vermin companion for druids) and Vermin Heart (allowed you to affect vermin with spells and effects that normally target animals) feats found in the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting hardcover.
When we revised that book into the Inner Sea World Guide, we hit a snag. The changes to how animal companions worked made it relatively difficult to easily summarize rules for vermin companions in the context of a feat—we needed a lot more room to provide all of the companion stat blocks for all the various types of monstrous vermin, after all. And so those feats didn't make the transition to the Inner Sea World Guide. Instead, you'll use the options in the upcoming Ultimate Magic to build these types of characters in the future.
When we revised that book into the Inner Sea World Guide, we hit a snag. The changes to how animal companions worked made it relatively difficult to easily summarize rules for vermin companions in the context of a feat—we needed a lot more room to provide all of the companion stat blocks for all the various types of monstrous vermin, after all. And so those feats didn't make the transition to the Inner Sea World Guide. Instead, you'll use the options in the upcoming Ultimate Magic to build these types of characters in the future.
Will there be rules for shape-changing into vermin? Technically there's no way to do it right now, and just letting beast-shape apply to vermin leaves the vermin forms very weak, since the only powers they tend to get from the list are grab, poison, and scent. Most of the vermin's cool stuff are unique named abilities, like slug's malleable, mantis's sudden strike, or cave fisher's filament and pull.
Just puttin' in my 2 cents. Being unable to legally turn into a giant spider (asides from some super beast polymorph) feels like a hole that needs to be filled.
When we revised that book into the Inner Sea World Guide, we hit a snag. The changes to how animal companions worked made it relatively difficult to easily summarize rules for vermin companions in the context of a feat—we needed a lot more room to provide all of the companion stat blocks for all the various types of monstrous vermin, after all. And so those feats didn't make the transition to the Inner Sea World Guide. Instead, you'll use the options in the upcoming Ultimate Magic to build these types of characters in the future.Will there be rules for shape-changing into vermin? Technically there's no way to do it right now, and just letting beast-shape apply to vermin leaves the vermin forms very weak, since the only powers they tend to get from the list are grab, poison, and scent. Most of the vermin's cool stuff are unique named abilities, like slug's malleable, mantis's sudden strike, or cave fisher's filament and pull.
Just puttin' in my 2 cents. Being unable to legally turn into a giant spider (asides from some super beast polymorph) feels like a hole that needs to be filled.
Currently there's the Vermin Shape spells from "Book of the Damned II: Lords of Chaos 48". Seeing as Wildshape is based off of Beastshape, this would be a good start I think.
School transmutation (polymorph)
Level druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 4, witch 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level
When you cast this spell, you assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the vermin type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and lunge. You don’t gain full immunity to mind-affecting effects, but you do gain a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws against such effects.
Small vermin: If you take the form of a Small vermin, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus.
Medium vermin: If you take the form of a Medium vermin, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +3 natural armor bonus.
School transmutation (polymorph)
Level druid 4, sorcerer/wizard 5, witch 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level
This spell functions as vermin shape I, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the vermin type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: burrow 30 feet, climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, tremorsense 30 feet, scent, blood drain, constrict, grab, lunge, poison, pull, trample, and web. You don’t gain full immunity to mind-affecting effects, but you do gain a +4 bonus on all saving throws against such effects.
Large vermin: If you take the form of a Large vermin, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +5 natural armor bonus.
Tiny vermin: If you take the form of a Tiny vermin, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
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Creative Director
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When we revised that book into the Inner Sea World Guide, we hit a snag. The changes to how animal companions worked made it relatively difficult to easily summarize rules for vermin companions in the context of a feat—we needed a lot more room to provide all of the companion stat blocks for all the various types of monstrous vermin, after all. And so those feats didn't make the transition to the Inner Sea World Guide. Instead, you'll use the options in the upcoming Ultimate Magic to build these types of characters in the future.Will there be rules for shape-changing into vermin? Technically there's no way to do it right now, and just letting beast-shape apply to vermin leaves the vermin forms very weak, since the only powers they tend to get from the list are grab, poison, and scent. Most of the vermin's cool stuff are unique named abilities, like slug's malleable, mantis's sudden strike, or cave fisher's filament and pull.
Just puttin' in my 2 cents. Being unable to legally turn into a giant spider (asides from some super beast polymorph) feels like a hole that needs to be filled.
yes.
These rules manifest in the form of two spells: vermin shape and vermin shape II. The spells first appeared in Lords of Chaos; they're also appearing in the Inner Sea World Guide.
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The changes to how animal companions worked made it relatively difficult to easily summarize rules for vermin companions in the context of a feat—we needed a lot more room to provide all of the companion stat blocks for all the various types of monstrous vermin, after all. And so those feats didn't make the transition to the Inner Sea World Guide. Instead, you'll use the options in the upcoming Ultimate Magic to build these types of characters in the future.
These rules manifest in the form of two spells: vermin shape and vermin shape II. The spells first appeared in Lords of Chaos; they're also appearing in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Now my Vermin Shaman will be better. Unless their will be an official version included in the Ultimate Magic which would be sweet!