I am playing a druid with a Ape animal companion.
At 4 level I added 1 to his int, making him smarter.
I can brew potions, so can my ape with int of 3 and hands use potions in combat. Cure light wounds or something similar.Thanks for help.
No reason he can't. He's got the minimum IQ to learn languages. If you can speak, you can be taught to drink out of a bottle by unstoppering the cap and drinking. He has the manual dexterity to do so as well.
I don't even think you would need a 4 int. I am pretty sure you could teach your pet to drink a potion as one of their tricks as long as they had the right appendages to do so.
Real life apes and monkeys of all kinds, and even raccoons, can open bottles and drink from them. I wouldn't trust a creature with animal intelligence to use a variety of potions intelligently, but they could certainly drink whatever you handed them when they receive it.
Anything smart enough to learn a language could certainly learn when to use a few basic potions, or at least to use them on command.
With a 3 int, no problem. Without the three int you might need a trick to teach them to back out of combat and drink.
For my dwarven druid's pony , i picked up one rank in profession cook. The dwarf brews healing potions , puts them in a gourd, seals it with gum arabic, and lets the horse know to eat the gourd if he's really hurt.
For my dwarven druid's pony , i picked up one rank in profession cook. The dwarf brews healing potions , puts them in a gourd, seals it with gum arabic, and lets the horse know to eat the gourd if he's really hurt.
that is awesomeness.
1) A animal can't raise his int above 2. Just saying that is what it says....although if you GM allows it than it is kosher...and I can see it working with a ape as they do seem to be able to learn a language( sign language.) Just thought you might should know the RAW.
2) Even if the animal only had a int of 2 I would say it could be a trick that you teach the animal. If you color code the potion bottles and such you can even get the ape to drink the right potion...or if injured drink this colored potion and such.
1) A animal can't raise his int above 2. Just saying that is what it says....Where precisely? The Animal Companion table gives it the following:
"Ability Score Increase (Ex): The animal companion adds +1
to one of its ability scores." It does not exclude Int.
In the Bestiary...under creature types...under animals...under traits...first bullet. Page 307. It say directly a creature with int of 3 or higher can't be a animal.
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In the Bestiary...under creature types...under animals...under traits...first bullet. Page 307. It say directly a creature with int of 3 or higher can't be a animal.1) A animal can't raise his int above 2. Just saying that is what it says....Where precisely? The Animal Companion table gives it the following:
"Ability Score Increase (Ex): The animal companion adds +1
to one of its ability scores." It does not exclude Int.
Speficic overrules general.
Skills: This lists the animal's total skill ranks. Animal companions can assign skill ranks to any skill listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks as normal. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. An animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill than it has Hit Dice.
In the Bestiary...under creature types...under animals...under traits...first bullet. Page 307. It say directly a creature with int of 3 or higher can't be a animal.1) A animal can't raise his int above 2. Just saying that is what it says....Where precisely? The Animal Companion table gives it the following:
"Ability Score Increase (Ex): The animal companion adds +1
to one of its ability scores." It does not exclude Int.Speficic overrules general.
Skills: This lists the animal's total skill ranks. Animal companions can assign skill ranks to any skill listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks as normal. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. An animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill than it has Hit Dice.
Sure and unless the specfic animal desciption says it is int is not limited to 2 than you can not raise it above a 2 though normal means and the above applies to them. There is nothing that says specficaly animal companions in general can have a int higher than 2.
The fact that apes...dolphins...whales...in my opinion should be able to have a int higher than 2 just means it is a house rule and not RAW.
Sure and unless the specfic animal desciption says it is int is not limited to 2 than you can not raise it above a 2 though normal means and the above applies to them. There is nothing that says specficaly animal companions in general can have a int higher than 2.
Anything in italics is out of the book.
If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher" specifically says that the animal companion can have intelligence can have an intelligence score of 10 or higher .How on earth would this be possible if animal companions couldn't have intelligence scores of 10? (mind you, you'd have a hard time getting it that high. start at 2, use a +4 book, four ability score increases...)
They remain creatures of the animal type for purposes of determining which spells can affect them. <----- You would have to demonstrate that animal companions are in fact, animals.
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill
<----- How on earth would this be possible if animal companions couldn't have intelligence scores of 3?
Ability score increase doesn't limit itself to non int possibilities.
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Sure and unless the specfic animal desciption says it is int is not limited to 2 than you can not raise it above a 2 though normal means and the above applies to them. There is nothing that says specficaly animal companions in general can have a int higher than 2.
The fact that apes...dolphins...whales...in my opinion should be able to have a int higher than 2 just means it is a house rule and not RAW.
John, this thread is talking about an animal companion, not a normal animal. The rules for animal companions are very specific - they CAN have their INT raised above 2. This isn't a house rule, it is an element of the Core rules
Look at the animal companion rules in the druid class:
Ability Score Increase (Ex): The animal companion adds +1 to one of its ability scores. Note that there is nothing about INT being an exception
Skills: This lists the animal's total skill ranks. Animal companions can assign skill ranks to any skill listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks as normal. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. An animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill than it has Hit Dice.
Animal Skills
Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills: Acrobatics* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception* (Wis), Stealth* (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim* (Str). All of the skills marked with an (*) are class skills for animal companions. [Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.
Animal Feats
Animal companions can select from the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.
A Animal companion say it is still a animal type creature...which means it has to follow those rules unless it directly contradicts rules. Which I just don't see. A animal can have a high than a two int if it says so in it's desciption.
That being said...if you can point out directly where animal companions can have a higher than a 2 int than sure I'll go along with it..or even a FAQ answeared. All it says on the subject is nothing...which is nbot a specific ruling to over rule the general rule.
The fact that it says thing with animal companionss having a int over 2 does not mean anything in terms of over ruling that because it completely possible that a animal under the rules can have a int above two as per it's desciption.
There is only one part in the animal companion description that I can see give you guys arguement any bearing...and that is unclear.
I really don't want to get into a rules debate here...is there a way to get this answeared by a Pathfinder Rules staffer? Other wise I'll just agree to disagree on this.
You're talking apples and oranges. Animal companions aren't Bestiary animals. Animal companions don't follow the build rules for the Animal Type, they follow their own statting and advancement. They're exceptional creatures, very much like, and share a lot of the same qualities as, the bestiary animals they are similar to, but they are not defined by the Animal build rules. The advancement rules companions follow are pretty clear that giving a companion an int above 2 isn't just allowed, it's intended (cf. without them even becoming an magical beast, as the spell Awaken)
A Animal companion say it is still a animal type creature...which means it has to follow those rules unless it directly contradicts rules. Which I just don't see. A animal can have a high than a two int if it says so in it's desciption.
That being said...if you can point out directly where animal companions can have a higher than a 2 int than sure I'll go along with it..or even a FAQ answeared. All it says on the subject is nothing...which is nbot a specific ruling to over rule the general rule.
The fact that it says thing with animal companionss having a int over 2 does not mean anything in terms of over ruling that because it completely possible that a animal under the rules can have a int above two as per it's desciption.
There is only one part in the animal companion description that I can see give you guys arguement any bearing...and that is unclear.
I really don't want to get into a rules debate here...is there a way to get this answeared by a Pathfinder Rules staffer? Other wise I'll just agree to disagree on this.
The rules that say so were pointed out to you. I really don't know how else to explain it to you.The only thing i haven't tried is this.
Q: Does an animal companion gain the normal animals racial modifiers. For example does an eagle animal companion still get its +8 racial modifier to perception?
A: (James Jacobs 1/3/09) As written, an animal companion gains ONLY the abilities that are listed in its animal companion stat block and the basic rules for animal companions. This does mean that an animal companion doesn't gain the various racial skill modifiers a normal animal of its kind gets; if the normal animal has bonus feats, the animal companion doesn't get them either. Animal companions are different than normal animals, after all, and are built using different rules.
One of those rule differences is obviously the cap on intelligence, since the rules specifically make mention of them.
An animal companion would not be able to select any feat it could physically do if it has an intelligence of 3 or higher unless there are animal companions who come by an intelligence of 3 or higher.
You're talking apples and oranges. Animal companions aren't Bestiary animals. Animal companions don't follow the build rules for the Animal Type, they follow their own statting and advancement. They're exceptional creatures, very much like, and share a lot of the same qualities as, the bestiary animals their similar to, but do not follow the monster build rules. The advancement rules companions follow are pretty clear that giving a companion an int above 2 isn't just allowed, it's intended (cf. without them even becoming an magical beast, as the spell Awaken)
A) An Animal cannot have an int above 2.
B) An Animal awakened gains higher intelligence, but becomes a Magical Beast.C) Druid's can only have Animals as companions, not Magical Beasts.
D) Druid AC rules give details of what happens for ACs with int of 3 or higher.
E) Part of the rules in D specify that ACs with int of 10 or higher gain bonus skill points normally.
Taking point A thru E above, we have to come to one of two conclusions :
1) Animal Companion rules have rules that can never occur and should be ignored.
2) Animal Companions have specific rules that contradict general rules, because they cover things that are absolutely impossible under general rules.
I think 2 is the correct interpretation. Let me reiterate, it is IMPOSSIBLE for an animal to have an INT of 3 or higher. A Druid CANNOT have an animal companion that is not an Animal. Therefore, we have a contradiction when referencing Animal Companions and INTs higher than 2. The only way to resolve that conflict is to take the rules stated in AC rules as an indication that Animal Companions are a specific exception to rule A above. This makes all rules work together as written in the rules in the core. Any other interpretation causes a A =/= A break in the rules.
Now, I'm sure someone will say 'What about a band of +INT'. Nope. Put one on an animal with a 1 int, and a +2 INT headband gives it an INT of 2. Animals cannot have an INT of higher than 2 (See rule A above). Can you put one on an AC? Yes. The rules for AC specifically say AC's with INT 3 or higher can do 'blah'. If a headband can boost their int, then any other boost can as well (spell, headband, inherent, tome, leveling).
BTW: Asphesteros, just used your post due to you mentioning awaken, which doesn't work on ACs. A druid that awakens his AC can only keep him through cohort leadership rules.
It does not say animals can't have int above 2...it says unless specificaly stated in the animal description there is a limit of two. So it is possible for a animal companion to be one of those animals with a higher int. That is why having rules say it what to do if a animal int score above three in regards to skills and feats is not to me atleast proff that all animal companions can get increased int.
That is where my position was. Before reading James Jaccob answear to the question....which states the intent...and yes than you guys are right and I am wrong.
Though Iwould still like to ask this directly of Pazio but can't figure out how...
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It does not say animals can't have int above 2...it says unless specificaly stated in the animal description there is a limit of two. So it is possible for a animal companion to be one of those animals with a higher int. That is why having rules say it what to do if a animal int score above three in regards to skills and feats is not to me atleast proff that all animal companions can get increased int.
That is where my position was. Before reading James Jaccob answear to the question....which states the intent...and yes than you guys are right and I am wrong.
Though Iwould still like to ask this directly of Pazio but can't figure out how...
Interestingly, Hyrum himself asked about this very topic several months ago (while he was still at Super Genius Games).
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/animalCompanionsAndAnIntOf3
Seeing as no official answer came of it, perhaps now, he's in a position to answer his own question.