I'm planning the following set piece in an upcoming game, but am still mulling over the most elegant rules solution for DMing it. So, I'm open to opinions:
Half-giant gladiator picks up his halfling barbarian ally and throws her at a PC. The halfling tries to grab on to a PC and then bites him/her.
I'm doing this largely to throw an element of surprise/humour into my PCs gladiatorial training. Also its thematically appropriate since Dark Sun halflings like eating sentients. Welcome to Athas.
1. Rules for throwing combatants
- these don't appear outlined in the core rules, ki throw in APG is centred around a trip, which doesn't sit well with a 'grab n throw' dynamic, plus its feat-based.
I'm thinking I could run this strictly as Combat Maneuvres, or a mixed of a ranged attack with the halfling as an improvised weapon.
My sense is that the grab (grapple) of the halfling shouldn't need a check as its voluntary (it would be a grapple check if on a hostile foe).
Throwing the halfling would be a bull rush check vs. the CMD of the target (no AoO unless threatened).
2. Halfling projectile grabbing onto target
Now this is the tricky bit. The throw happens on the half-giant's combat turn. How would I best resolve the halfling grabbing onto the PC and starting to snack?
The most rules consistent action would seem to be to wait for the halfling's combat turn then resolve a bite attack, or a grapple plus bite (over two turns).
However, this seems to slow down the 'cinematic' drama of the set piece.
So, I'm wondering if there's a quicker way to resolve this that produces a 'wow' factor from players without it having to take too long and making sure its fair within the rules.
Would there be a fair way to resolve the throw and halfling's grab onto the target within the same turn?
How about the halfling delaying initiative until just after the half-giant's turn? Then all this can be resolved in quick succession.
Open to ideas.
I'd say delaying initiative is your best option, that is what that mechanic is for really.
half-giant throws, determine results, halflings turn, grapple check and a bite (next round, you can't grapple and attack)
Not every monster has to have a separate initiative slot. For example, the way we play, each monster "group" has its own slot, but the individual creatures do not. So the boss might have a slot, his mooks might have another, and the big bruiser might have a third. It simplifies things.
This is the way Savage Worlds does it, and I think D&D4 does too. As I say, it's how my group does it in Pathfinder, but I have no idea if it's supported by the rules.
Anyway, that's all just a long-winded way of saying that you should consider the halfling and giant to be one monster group for the purposes of initiative, and have them act on the same slot. It's not strictly rules legal, but it's not breaking anything, and you get the same effect by delaying the halfling's action anyway, so it al comes out in the wash.
Basically, let them roll for initiative and take the lowest, since they are waiting for eachother.
= Rules of Pathfinder
= similar idea of Kelvin
First, your adventure sounds awesome.
Second, at the point when the halfling is thrown, it is as weapon rather than as character. The halfling actions are wholly reactive based upon things not in his or her control. He might as well be a flask of oil. An angry, wild, anthropophagic flask of oil, but one nevertheless.
However, for the cinema, I would give a one initiative segment delay (H-G's init. - 1) for the sake of the "wubba?" factor from the players.
Thanks for the thoughts, folks.
First, your adventure sounds awesome.
Cheers. I hope the players think so!
Second, at the point when the halfling is thrown, it is as weapon rather than as character. The halfling actions are wholly reactive based upon things not in his or her control. He might as well be a flask of oil. An angry, wild, anthropophagic flask of oil, but one nevertheless.
My sense is that given the existing rules the half-giant can opt either to:
1) Throw the "halfling" as an improvised weapon (-4 attack), in which case it merely deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage (possibly non-lethal and may also damage the projectile); OR
2) Use the halfling as an improvised combat maneuvre weapon (-4 attack) in a bull rush or trip (this deals no damage as with most combat maneuvres).
Halfling does her grapple in the next initiative slot and a bite the next round, or since the former is a little slow in gameplay time, just goes for a bite attack (cinematically on top of the target and gnashing furiously with her sharpened teeth).
@kelvingreen - the monster group initiative idea sounds interesting, I'll take a look at the respective rulesets you mentioned, but might save that for larger battles.
In any case, if it all works out well, the players might well be clamouring for a halfling in the party and the existence of Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Weaponised Halfling)! (One of my players scoffed at the idea of halflings being fun in Dark Sun... What's not to like about 2' tall bundles of cannibalistic fury?)
You might also find the spell enemy hammer useful, as it tells you how much damage a creature does -- and takes -- when used as a weapon; a halfling would cause 1d10 damage when used in this fashion.
You might also find the spell enemy hammer useful, as it tells you how much damage a creature does -- and takes -- when used as a weapon; a halfling would cause 1d10 damage when used in this fashion.
lol
i LOVE it. Fun spell. And 1d10 damage from a halfling is pretty good. Thanks for the link.
here is a good way to do it.
Halfling goes, sets a readied action to grapple any PC he gets within reach of when thrown.
Giant goes picks up halfling and throws him as per improvised weapon. Have the giant take Throw Anything to negate the -4.
If the giant hits have both the halfling and PC take damage. Hit or miss the halfling gets his grapple check.
What is the damage of the thrown halfling? Well rock throwing states "Damage from a thrown rock is generally twice the creature's base slam damage plus 1-1/2 its Strength bonus." Since the halfling is a lot softer then a rock I saw just used the giants slam damage plus strength bonus.
Now think if the giant has deadly aim feat!
Now if the halfling was in full plate then I would have it do full rock throwing damage.
I would suggest you include a home-ruled feat:
FastBall Special (Combat, Teamwork):
Allows two allies with 2 size scale difference to delay to the lowest init. and combine a equivalent of a Bull-Rush Maneuver on the target and moving the smaller allie in the adjacent square for the larger one and either a charge or grapple for the smaller one.
+Details of minuses and/or prerequisites...
Humm I'm going to keep this around...
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Or if you have the Races of Stone book (3.5) and look at page 139 it shows you the fling ally feat.
Basically it takes a move action to pick up an ally and a standard action to throw them. It's a ranged touch attack vs. AC 5 to throw the ally into a specific square. I would make the halfling ready an action to grapple when he gets closer to his target and on his turn he could start eating.
There's also the fling enemy feat, but that's a different story.
You said you're chucking a halfling barbarian right? Give him that bite rage power for one.
Similar plan in the other respect, mostly. Halflings go, activate rage but otherwise delay initiative to be tossed. Half giants go, pick up halfling and chuck him (seems a reasonable adaptation of their rock throwing ability)-
For this particular scenario, I'd say invent a teamwork feat, call it I choose you! or something- effect, if both the thrower and the throwee have the feat, the thrower doesn't take a -4 penalty (since the halfling is not a rock) and the throwee gets the GRAB effect.
So- how would this go down:
halfling Rages, but delays most of his actions.
Half Giant picks up and hurls halfling. He counts in all respects as a missile, dealing damage equal to a small boulder, assuming he hits the target AC.
If he hits, the halfling immediately attempts to grab (hopefully rage will give him a nice boost, even being small and all) at a +4 bonus, as is normal with grab. (plus who sees that coming?)
Halfling turn, maintains grapple at +5 (grappling rules) uses his action to pin, and bite like a frenzied howler monkey.
I'd choose pin because I think that'd be hilarious to have a raging halfling ride a PC to the ground biting him in the neck.
If he hits, the halfling immediately attempts to grab (hopefully rage will give him a nice boost, even being small and all) at a +4 bonus, as is normal with grab.
Why would a halfling have grab? Isn't it an extraordinary monster ability?
1. Halfling ready action to grapple when he hits a PC.
2. Giant move action to draw the halfling on his turn. Free action if quickdraw feat.
3. Giant throws halfling as an improvised ranged weapon. Makes a ranged touch attack against the PC because he's just trying to get the halfling to the PC.
4. Assuming the giant's attack was successful, Halfling's readied action goes and he tries to start a grapple.