Hey you guys, i was wondering something, after last session.
Is having reach the same as having threatening reach?
I don't know where I picked this up (prolly 3.5) but if I have 10ft reach with my Human wielding a pole-arm, or with my dragon,.. Doest it automatically mean that the individual gets AOO when people leave/go through the squares not directly adjacent to you?
Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.
Reach weapons increase reach but do not threaten adjacent squares.
Unlike when someone uses a reach weapon, a creature with greater than normal natural reach (more than 5 feet) still threatens squares adjacent to it. A creature with greater than normal natural reach usually gets an attack of opportunity against you if you approach it, because you must enter and move within the range of its reach before you can attack it. This attack of opportunity is not provoked if you take a 5-foot step.
Monsters have threatening reach by default unless their individual description says otherwise (and I can't think of any PF monster that would have such rule).
Monsters have threatening reach by default unless their individual description says otherwise (and I can't think of any PF monster that would have such rule).
WHat about the Cavalier's charge "not provoking AOO"? Same with multiple squares threatened?
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Hey you guys, i was wondering something, after last session.
Is having reach the same as having threatening reach?
I don't know where I picked this up (prolly 3.5) but if I have 10ft reach with my Human wielding a pole-arm, or with my dragon,.. Doest it automatically mean that the individual gets AOO when people leave/go through the squares not directly adjacent to you?
I don't know what you mean by the term "threatening reach." In both 3.5 and PF, a creature threatens those squares into which it can make a melee attack. It threatens all of those squares and it threatens no other squares. It can make an AoO against a creature that provokes an AoO in those threatened squares.
What constitutes a threatened square depends on the attacker's size and weapons/natural weapons used. Creatures with natural attacks tend to threaten all squares out to a given distance. Creatures armed with pole arms tend to provoke at a distance but not adjacent or close up; they may have an additional attack that allows them to attack close up.
WHat about the Cavalier's charge "not provoking AOO"? Same with multiple squares threatened?
I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding a cavelier's charge; I don't see a cavelier's ability that negates AoO for a charge. Might Charge, the 11th level ability, negates the AoO from the free combat manouver, but not from the charge's movement (if the movement provoked in the first place.
However, most caveliers will tend to have Ride-By Attack, which negates the AoO for movement from the target of the attack when making mounted charges. The target's reach doesn't change that. A character with RBA would take no AoO due to movement from a large giant with natural reach, a medium creature with a pole arm, a giant with a pole arm, etc.
However, most caveliers will tend to have Ride-By Attack, which negates the AoO for movement from the target of the attack when making mounted charges. The target's reach doesn't change that. A character with RBA would take no AoO due to movement from a large giant with natural reach, a medium creature with a pole arm, a giant with a pole arm, etc.
That is exactly what i was talking about.
Let's say the "x" are squares the giant can make an AOO, "o" are open squares.The cavalier (with ride-by-attack) can ride through 4 squares without provoking the AOO?
o...x...x...Giant...x...x...o...Cavalier
o...x...x...Giant...x...x...C...o...
o...x...x...Giant...x...C...o...o...
o...x...x...Giant...C...x...o...o...
o...x...C...Giant...x...x...o...o...
o...C...x...Giant...x...x...o...o...
C...x...x...Giant...x...x...o...o...
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However, most caveliers will tend to have Ride-By Attack, which negates the AoO for movement from the target of the attack when making mounted charges. The target's reach doesn't change that. A character with RBA would take no AoO due to movement from a large giant with natural reach, a medium creature with a pole arm, a giant with a pole arm, etc.That is exactly what i was talking about.
Let's say the "x" are squares the giant can make an AOO, "o" are open squares.
The cavalier (with ride-by-attack) can ride through 4 squares without provoking the AOO?o...x...x...Giant...x...x...o...Cavalier
o...x...x...Giant...x...x...C...o...
o...x...x...Giant...x...C...o...o...
o...x...x...Giant...C...x...o...o...
o...x...C...Giant...x...x...o...o...
o...C...x...Giant...x...x...o...o...
C...x...x...Giant...x...x...o...o...
Rick, I can't really follow the diagram here (the giant appears to be odd sized). But if your intent is to show the ride-by attack (whatever the class of character) progressing through multiple squares around a single giant, then yes, he can go through the four squares without provoking an AoO due to the movement associated with the charge.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Is having reach the same as having threatening reach?
Reach in 3.0/3.5 was renamed Threatening Reach in 4.0.
So there is only one Reach in PF, and it is the same as Threatening Reach in 4.0.The one interesting change from 3.5 is that Reach is now a circle not a square in form. So instead of ignoring diagonals they are now counted like movement.
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However, most caveliers will tend to have Ride-By Attack, which negates the AoO for movement from the target of the attack when making mounted charges. The target's reach doesn't change that. A character with RBA would take no AoO due to movement from a large giant with natural reach, a medium creature with a pole arm, a giant with a pole arm, etc.That is exactly what i was talking about.
Let's say the "x" are squares the giant can make an AOO, "o" are open squares.
The cavalier (with ride-by-attack) can ride through 4 squares without provoking the AOO?o...x...x...Giant...x...x...o...Cavalier
o...x...x...Giant...x...x...C...o...
o...x...x...Giant...x...C...o...o...
o...x...x...Giant...C...x...o...o...
o...x...C...Giant...x...x...o...o...
o...C...x...Giant...x...x...o...o...
C...x...x...Giant...x...x...o...o...
even at worst case, they would only provoke 1 attack of Opportunity, since:
From the PRD on Attacks of Opportunity:
Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don't have to make an attack of opportunity if you don't want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you've already attacked in the round.
An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn).
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Can you cite that page as I've not come across that change and the last game played used the old "square" rules for reach.
It's not really clear.
In the combat chapter the ogre used in the example still works like the 3.5 version so it seems to be the same to me, and there is no change in verbage to suggest otherwise either.
If they intended for a change to be made they need errata to the verbage and the picture.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Can you cite that page as I've not come across that change and the last game played used the old "square" rules for reach.
The only way to make it clear is to reference a 3.5 PHB where a specific exemption was detailed in the reach rules and the fact that specific exemption was deliberately omitted (by accident or choice) in the reach rules for PF.
I personally still use the 3.5 "Reach doesn't count diagonals as double every other" method while running PF, but some DM's do.
even at worst case, they would only provoke 1 attack of Opportunity, since:
Also with ride by attack? YES? NO?
Coz it says "No aoo"...
even at worst case, they would only provoke 1 attack of Opportunity, since:
Also with ride by attack? YES? NO?
Coz it says "No aoo"...
Ride by Attack is Specific vs. the General AoO rules, so yes, your Cavalier will not be struck by the giant at all when he uses Spring Attack on it.
Any other enemies that you pass may AoO you as pr. usual rules though.
Also, anyone using a Polearm should consider Armor Spikes. This will allow you to threaten squares that are adjacent to you, although your AoO's with the spikes is probably quite underwhelming compared to a whack with the polearm. :-)