| IkeDoe |
Ninja playtesting with a 3-members party in an adventure.
After reading the Ninja I was concerned about the ability that provides Greater Invisibility and how it performs being part of an adventuring party in the usual adventure with a few encounters be.
The playtest uses a Ninja build similar to a Two-Weapon-Fighting Rogue build, the Ninja has got a Evasion Ring trying to be like a Rogue, the build is centered around Invisibility and making as much Sneak Attacks as possible.
Shadow Clone wasn't selected because it doesn't stack with Invisibility, it would be handy when Invisibility isn't an advantage or for builds not based in the Vanishing Trick (because Mirror Image is always a nice resource).
Ability Scores: Point buy with 20 points.
Standard Wealth Per Level.
Core Rulebook + APG
LEVEL 10 CHARACTERS
FIGHTER
Level 10 Human Speed 30' Runx3 (in armor) Ini+1
Str 22, Dex 14, Con 14, Wis 12, Int 10, Cha 8
HP: 9d10+50 = 100.
AC 32 (29 flatfooted), Touch AC: 15 *25% negate critical hits
Bastard Sword attack: +23/+18, damage 1d10+15, Crit 17-20/x2 // *Vital Strike *Power Attack
BAB+10, CMB +16, CMD 30 //* +2 CMD vs disarm and sunder
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +9, Will +9 *Plus Bravery
Class features: Armor Training 2 (decreases armor check penalties by 2, +2 Max Dex allowed by armor. Normal speed heavy armor), Weapon Training (bonus to at/damage/CMB/CMD vs disarm and sunder. +2 group Heavy Blades. +1 group Bows), Bravery (+3 will saves vs fear)
Class Skills: Survival 5 rank (Wis), Intimidate 5 rank (Cha), Climb 2 rank (Str), Handle Animal 1 rank (Cha), k-dungeons 3 rank (Int), k-engineering 1 rank (Cha), Ride 1 rank (Dex), Swim 1 rank (Str).
Non class Skills: Perception 5 rank (Wis), Acrobatics 4 ranks (Dex), Heal 1 rank (Wis), Stealth 1 rank (Dex)
skill check penalties: -4
Feats: Weapon Focus (BastSw), Exotic Weapon (bastard sword), Dodge, Improved Critical (BastSw), Shield Focus, Power Attack, Greater Weapon Focus (BastSw), Specialization (BastSw), Vital Strike, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Toughness
Equipment: Javelin, Heavy Shield +1 Light Fortification, Bastard Sword +3, Short sword, Composite Longbow (for Str 20), Full Plate+3, Ring of Protection +2, Amulet of natural armor+1, Belt of giant Str +2, Cloack of Resistance+3,
Potions: 4xcure light wounds, Remove Fear, Fly, Invisibility, Cure Moderate Wounds, Haste, Levitate
NINJA
Level 10 Human Speed 30' Ini+6
Str 13, Dex 22, Con 14, Wis 12, Int 10, Cha 10
HP: 9d8+48 = 89
AC 24 (18 flatfooted), Touch AC: 17 // 50% miss chance if invisible
Short Swords (TWF) attack: +14/+9/+14/+9 damage 1d6+3, Crit 19-20/x2 // *Sneak Attack 5d6, +2 attack while invisible and denies Dex.
BAB +7, CMB +8, CMD 25
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +15, Will +7 *Evasion
Class features: Poison Use, Ki Pool (5 points), No Trace +3, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Light Steps, Sneak Attack +5d6, Ninja Tricks: Bleeding Attack (bleed 5 per SA, don't stack), Vanishing Trick (1/day or 1 Ki. Invisible 10 rounds), Pressure Points (1 str damage when SA), Weapon Focus. 1 Master Ninja Trick: Invisible Blade (greater invisibility when using Vanishing Trick)
Class Skills: Acrobatics 10 ranks (Dex), Bluff 10 rank (Cha), Climb 5 rank(Str), Diplomacy 1 rank (Cha), Disable Device 7 ranks (Dex), Disguise 2 ranks (Cha), Escape Artist 10 rank (Dex), Intimidate 1 rank (Cha), Knowledge (local) 5 ranks (Int), Knowledge (nobility) 1 rank (Int), Perception 10 ranks (Wis), Perform 1 rank (Cha), Sense Motive 10 ranks (Wis), Sleight of Hand 1 rank (Dex), Stealth 10 rank (Dex), Swim 2 rank (Str), and Use Magic Device 2 ranks (Cha)
Non class Skills: Heal 1 rank (Wis), Ride 1 rank (Dex), Survival 1 rank (Wis)
skill check penalties: 0
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Iron Will, Weapon Focus, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Toughness, Double Slice
Equipment: Ring of Evasion, Mithral Chain Shirt+2, Short Sword +2, Short Sword+2, Ring of Protection+1, Amulet of natural armor+1, Belt of Dex+2, Cloack of Resistance+2, Composite Shortbow (for Str 12)
Potions: 4xcure light wounds, Remove Fear, Fly, 2xCure Moderate Wounds, Haste, Levitate
CLERIC
Level 10 Human Speed 30' (with armor) Ini+5 *Freedom of Movement may be cast
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 16, Wis 22, Int 10, Cha 12
HP: 9d8+58 = 99.
AC (after casting magic vestment on the buckler): 27 (25 flatfooted), Touch AC: 13 // *Add 2 if Shield of Faith in effect
Morningstar attack (after casting greater magic weapon, magic+2) : +11/+6, damage 1d8+4, Crit 20/x2, Type B&P //*+1 to damage and attack if Bull's Str in effect
Light Crossbow attack: +8, damage 1d8, Crit 19-20/x2, Range 80', Reload as move action
BAB+7, CMB +9, CMD 22 *While Freedom of Movement is in effect it prevents grappling
Saves base Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +16 *20 resistance against one energy type if Resist Energy in effect *120 points absortion against one type of energy if Protection from Energy in effect
Class features: Deity "Desna" (favored weapon: Starknife), Aura, Channel Energy (5d6, 4/day), Spontaneous Casting, Good Domain-Touch of Good 9/day (touch as standard action, for one round +1/2 cleric level sacred bonus on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, skills), Luck Domain-Bit of Luck 9/day(touch as standard action, for one round roll any d20 twice and get the more favorable result), Good Domain-Holy Lance 1/day (Touch weapon, Holy for1/2 cleric level rounds), Luck Domain-Good Fortune 1/day (Reroll any roll before results are revealed)
Class Skills: Heal 1 rank (Wis), Knowledge-Religion 5 rank (Int), k-Arcana 5 rank(Int), k-Planes 5 rank(Int), Diplomacy 1 rank (Cha), Appraise 1 rank (Int), Sense Motive 3 rank (Wis), Spellcraft 1 rank (Int)
Non class Skills: Acrobatics 4 ranks (Dex)*+5 to Jump, Perception 1 rank (Wis), Climb 1 rank (Str), Swim 1 rank (Str), Stealth 1 rank (Dex)
skill check penalties: -3
Feats: Toughness, Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Shield Focus, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell
Equipment: Morningstar, javelin, light crossbow, Breastplate +3, Masterwork Buckler, Lesser Extend Metamagic Rod, Ring of Protection+1, Belt of Constitution+2, Cloack of Resistance+3, Amulet of Natural Armor+2, Boots of striding and springing, Headband Wisdom +4, 2 x Cure light wounds wands
Potions: 5xcure light wounds, Fly, Invisibility, Cure Moderate Wounds, Haste, Levitate
Spells/day: 0 level: Prepare 4, but infinite uses // First level: 6/day + Domain (True strike or Protection vs Evil) // Second level: 6/day + Domain (Align weapon-good only or Aid) // Third level: 5/day + Domain (Magic Circle vs Evil or Protection from Energy) // 4th level: 5/day + Domain (Holy Smite or Freedom of Movement) // 5th level: 3/day + Domain (Dispel Evil or Break Enchantment)
Known Spells: All cleric spells.
Memorized spells: Level 0 (Light, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Virtue), Level 1 (Remove Fear, Divine Favor, 3xShield of Faith, Bless + Domain-True Strike), Level 2 ( Aid, Bull's Str, Delay Poison, Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration + Domain-Align Weapon-Good), Level 3 (Magic Vestment, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Remove Blindness/Deafness + Domain-Protection from Energy), Level 4 (2xGreater Magic Weapon, 2xRestoration, Divine Power + Domain-Freedom of Movement), Level 5 ( Spell Resistance, True Seeing, Quicken Cure light wounds +Domain-Break Enchantment)
| IkeDoe |
Level 10: The Adventure / Test
They are gonna run an old good "4 encounters a day" dungeon.
An Easy Trap (CR 8), 2xAverage Encounters (CR 9), 1 Challenging Encounter (CR 10) and 1 Epic Encounter (CR 12)
The Ninja has been using his skills (Bluff and Sense Motive) to get new quests for the party and reliable patrons. However the party isn't very good for information gathering.
The patron tells them where to go, but doesn't tell all the truth. The Ninja succeeds at the Sense Motive roll, the patron finally says that demons have been seen there.
The cleric casts Protection from Energy (fire), Magic Vestment, Freedom of Movement and Greater magic weapon on himself before gettin close to the old ruins near the mountains.
*** First Encounter (Average CR 9): 2xBabau (CR 6) and Shadow Demon (CR 7).
The party enters in the dungeon, the Ninja goes first, using Stealth and trying to see the enemy before they see him, so the party gets more information (he can't use invisibility for this because it doesn't last enough)
The Ninja rolls 3 (for total 22) in Stealth, and the enemies see or hear him. In the surprise round the ninja uses Invisible Blade (1 daily free use, he doesn't know that Babaus can See Invisibility) and flees, the demons try to summon more creatures, but only 1 Babau appears.
The shadow uses Sprint and casts Fear over the party (Will Save DC 18), the Ninja rolls 1. The cleric can't see the Ninja, thus he can't help the ninja casting Remove Fear. The cleric uses Holy Lance to make his Morningstar Holy. The fighter deals 15 damage to the Shadow, then one Babau casts Darkness.
The next round the shadow uses Shadow Evocation to cast Cone of Cold, the cleric takes 2 damage, the fighter 13. The Cleric casts Daylight and the area returns to dim light. The Ninja had run, now he looses this round drinkin a Remove Fear potion. The fighter is defending the 2 square wide corridor and two babau attack him, one babau tries to dispel Daylight, but fails the check. The fighter hits one babau.
Then the shadow casts a Shadow-Fireball, the Fighter takes 16 damage, Protection from Energy protects the Cleric (absorbs 6 points). The cleric hits a babau and gets hit. The fighter kills that babau. The Ninja returns. One babau dispells Daylight.
The shadow moves and casts a shadow-Cone of Cold. The fighter takes 6 damage and the Ninja uses Evasion. The cleric deals 12 damage to the Shadow. The fighter is lucky with rolls, with one hit and a critical he kills one babau.
The shadow deals 21 damage to the fighter (touch attacks). The cleric deals 13 damage to the Shadow. The Ninja hits the shadow many times but his weapons can't beat the creature's DR and darkness prevents Sneak Attack. The fighter fails his attacks. The babau deals 26 damage to the Ninja. The cleric's weapon is no longer Holy.
The shadow deals 20 damage to the fighter. The Ninja retreats, the cleric fails its attacks. The fighter deals 12 damage to the shadow. The babau deals 25 damage to the cleric.
The shadow deals 10 damage to the fighter, the fighter finally kills the shadow. The babau deals 9 damage to the cleric.
The fighter deals 54 damage to the babau, then the Babau flees.
Summing up: Ninja 26 damage, Fighter 86 damage, Cleric 46 damage. The Ninja used the free use/day of Vanishing Trick, and 1 Remove Fear Potion. The Cleric used Holy Lance and DayLight. The cleric uses 2xChannel Energy and 12 wand charges to heal the party.
Notes about the Ninja: "Fear" got the Ninja out of combat half of the encounter, however darkness+see invisibility+incorporeal foes+DRs would make him almost useless in this encounter.
*** Second Encounter (Average CR 9): Huge Earth Elemental (CR 7) and Succubus (CR 7)
The survivor babau from the previous encounter warns the Succubus and she uses Detect Thoughts and Stealth, trying to detect the party before the party detects her.
The ninja is exploring too, the ninja rolls 4 for Stealth (total 23) and the Succubus see him. The demon rolls 20 in Stealth. The Succubus falls back, tries to summon a babau but fails. The Ninja sees the Huge Elemental and returns to alert the party. The cleric casts Shield of Faith on himself. The cleric fails his Knowledge check for elementals.
The Elemental uses Tremorsense to detect the enemy, so the Ninja, the Succubus and the Elemental get a surprise round. The Ninja uses 1 Ki point to become invisible, in order to avoid AoOs (elementals are inmune to SA). He doesn't know that this elemental has tremorsense, the GM rules that tremorsense works as Blindsight (it makes invisibility useless). However it helps him against the Succubus he hasn't seen yet.
The Ninja can't deal much damage to the elemental, he does 6 damage with two hits and fails two hits with natural 1s. The fighter moves and the succubus uses Vampiric Touch against him, 24 damage and +24 temporal hps for the succubus.
The Ninja attacks the succubus, but the succubus has DR. The Ninja deals 26 damage with two SA's, plus Bleed 5 and -1 Str. The fighter deals 18 damage to the Elemental. The Succubus uses Vampiric Touch on the fighter again, 24 damage again. The cleric gives "Bit of Luck" to the fighter. The elemental deals 17 damage to the fighter, its attack to the cleric fails.
The Ninja deals 48 damage to the succubus with 3 sneak attacks, plus -3 Str. The fighter deals 48 damage to the Elemental. The succubus drains 19 hps to the fighter using Vampiric Touch. The cleric casts defensively a 4th level cure spell on the fighter (uses Greater magic Weapon), heals 33.
The Ninja deals 42 damage to the succubus with 4 SA's, and -4 Str. The fighter deals 41 damage to the elemental with 2 attacks, the elemental dies. The succubus drains 25 hps from the cleric. The cleric uses Touch of Good.
The Ninja deals 62 damage with 4 SA's, killing the Succubus.
Summing up: Ninja no wounds, Fighter 49 wounds (after combat healing), Cleric 25 wounds. The ninja used 1 Ki point. The cleric used 1 x 4th level spell, 1xBit of Luck and 1xTouch of Good (btw, BL and TG were useless). The cleric uses 2xChannel Energy and 4 wand charges to heal the party.
Notes about the Ninja: The damage written already has the DR10 applied (but doesn't take in mind temporal hps), otherwise it would deal 77 damage per round (average for this encounter). The ninja didn't help in defensive tasks, attacking the ninja with vampiric touch made no sense, and in most cases the fighter and/or the cleric were giving him cover from the elemental attacks.
*** Third Encounter (Challenging CR10): 2xHill Giant (CR 7) and Stone Giant (CR 8)
The dungeon has an entrance to a cave, it leads to a small valley, 15 minutes later they have an encounter with giants.
The babau has alerted them, but the giants aren't very intelligent and expect the succubus to kill the intruders and don't prepare any ambush.
The terrain is rocky, the ground is full or loose small stones and there is few cover or concealment. It is considered difficult terrain.
The ninja uses 1 Ki point to become invisible and uses Light Steps to move (the enemy is 75' away). The fighter moves. The cleric casts Shield of Faith on himself and moves. The giants throw rocks, but the cleric and the fighter have too high ACs.
The ninja moves silently close to a giant, he wins the Stealth vs Perception check, the hill giants fail the DC 20 check to know that there are invisible creatures in the area, but the stone giant makes it. The fighter and the cleric keep moving. The giants keep throwing rocks without effect. When one of the Hill giants throw a rock it provockes an AoO from the adjacent Ninja, 6d6+3 damage (SA), deals 28 plus Bleed 5.
Now the Ninja performs a full attack against the Hill giant, 4 hits for a grand total 89 damage (plus -4 Str), enough to kill the Hill giant. The cleric moves. The fighter moves and attacks other Hill giant using Vital Strike and Power Attack, critical hit that deals 56 damage. With lucky rolls (20 and 19) the hill giant scores a critical hit on the fighter (45 damage). The Stone giant moves.
The Ninja moves and attacks the hill giant: 25 damage and Bleed 5. The fighter kills the hill giant and moves, provocking an AoO. The cleric deals 7 damage to the stone giant. The giant deals 15 damage to the cleric.
The Ninja moves and attacks once, 24 damage and Bleed 5. The fighter does 49 damage with two attacks. The giant does 13 damage to the fighter, also tries to hit the invisible ninja, but fails the miss chance roll.
The Ninja does a full attack: 2 hits and one Critical, total 82 damage and -3 Str, actually the first hit was enough to kill the giant.
Summing up: Ninja 0 wounds, Fighter 58 wounds, Cleric 15 wounds. The ninja used 1 Ki point. The cleric used Shield of Faith. After combat the cleric uses Bless, Divine Favor, Lesser Restoration and 10 wand charges to heal the party.
*** Trap: Camouflaged Spiked Pit Trap (CR 8)
The valley leads to an old temple in the rock, 5 minutes later they are here, the entrance is a long corridor, the ninja goes ahead using Stealth.
The Ninja rolls 9 in Perception (total 23), the trap's Perception DC is 25. The ninja triggers the trap (the GM has got doubts about how Light Steps works with Stealth, and it ignores many traps). The Ninja makes the saving throw, no damage.
Notes: It was a mechanical trap, he could disable it.
*** 4th and Final Encounter (Epic CR 12): 4xOgre Mage
Alerted by the Babau and the sound of triggered traps the Ogre Mages are already invisible, and their chamber is covered by magical darkness (they cast darkness and invisibility at will). The ninja rolls 35 Stealth, gets near the chamber, sees the unnatural dark area and hears some sounds (after rolling Perception DC20).
The ninja returns. The cleric thinks that it is another encounter with babaus and casts Align Weapon-Good at the Ninja's main weapon, True Seeing on the Ninja and Bull's Str on himself. Finally the party goes to the chamber.
Now, with True Seeing, the Ninja can see the Ogre Mages, the Ogre Mages can see the party too, and there's a surprise round.
Surprise round: 1 Mage Ogre casts cone of cold, the cleric is out of range, the Ninja uses Evasion and the fighter takes 15 cold damage. The Ninja becomes invisible using 1 Ki Point, warns the party about the ogres and moves. Other Magre Ogre casts another cone of cold, the Ninja uses Evasion and the fighter takes 38 damage. The other two Mage Ogres move because they haven't line of effect.
1st round: One Ogre Mage deals 17 damage to the Ninja. The Ninja deals 117 damage with 4 successful hits (plus Bleed 5, -3 Str), killing that Mage Ogre. Another Ogre casts Cone of Cold, 14 damage to the fighter. Other ogre fails the miss chances attacking the invisible Ninja. The last Ogre begins to cast "Deep Slumber" (1 round spell). The cleric moves and casts Dispel Magic against Darkness, succeeds, Ogre Mages are no longer invisible because they have attacked already. The fighter moves and attacks with Vital Strike, 1 critical for 50 damage.
2nd round: The Ninja does 1 critical and 2 hits, then uses 1 Ki point for the extra attack, another hit, total 99 damage, Bleed 5, -3 Str, enough to kill the Ogre Magre. An Ogre ends casting Deep Slumber on the fighter, he makes the saving throw, then casts Darkness again. The last Ogre rolls 20 and 17, a critical hit on the fighter for 39 damage, the fighter falls unconscious (-6), with the second attack the Ogre tries to kill the fighter in the ground (attacking the invisible Ninja is too hard) but rolls 4 and the full plate saves the fighter's life. The cleric moves to the fighter's square and casts the quicken cure light wounds spell on the fighter body, he succeeds rolling the miss chance and heals 3.
3rd round: The Ninja hits the Ogre Mage 3 times, total 70 damage, Bleed 5, - 2 Str, killing the Ogre Mage (it had 50 wounds from a previous fighter attack). The remaining Ogre Mage moves and attacks the cleric, 18 damage. The cleric moves out of the area with the fighter's body, provocking an AoO, 20 damage.
4th round: The Ninja is alone with the Ogre Mage, hits him 4 times, 83 damage, Bleed 5 and -3 Str. The Ogre Mage hits the Ninja once, the critical hit is avoided by just 1 point of AC, 19 damage to the Ninja. The cleric uses Restoration to cast Cure Critical Wounds on the fighter, heals 25.
5th round: The Ninja kills the last Ogre Mage.
Summing up: Ninja 36 wounds, Fighter 78 wounds (after combat healing), Cleric 38 wounds. The Ninja used 2 Ki points. The cleric used Align Weapon, True Seeing, Bull's Str, Dispel Magic, Quicken cure light wounds and Restoration.
The adventure is over, the guys take the treasure, the cleric heals their wounds using the remaining spells. The Ninja still has 1 remaining Ki point.
Notes about the Adventure: None of the creatures had specially high ACs, most were around AC 21, which was nice for a TWF build, I don't know how good it would perform against creatures with AC 30.
| IkeDoe |
Conclusions:
Under ideal conditions that build is better than any other martial character, the 50% miss chance gives you as much defense as a guy with shield, invisibility protects you from "target" spells, Evasion+Reflex protect you from area spells, you always deny Dex, you get +2 to attack and you have 4 attacks to deal SA damage and you get lots of skills.
That's ideal conditions, but fortunatelly it's circumnstantial, there are many creatures in the Bestiary that cast Darkness (which prevents you from using Sneak Attack), a few that are invisible or inmune to critical hits and sneak attacks and a few that can see invisibility or have the "Blind Fight" feat.
The Darkness issue can be avoided buying potions of Darkvision (300 gp) or getting the Darkvision Ninja Trick. One Master Trick gives you "See Invisibility".
If the enemy can See Invisibility, have the "Blind Fight" feat or is inmune to SA there're few things you can do to use SA (except those that a regular Rogue can do).
Not having Trap finding isn't such a big problem, half of the Core Rulebook traps are mechanical, even at high levels. Poisons are too expensive for my tastes.
The Ninja can explore and has many skills that can be of use for the party. However in combat it isn't so great for the party, he can deal a lot of damage but he doesn't get his part of enemy fire, while invisible many spells and attacks are aimed at other party members.
The Ninja seems to have enough Ki points to do the job, unless the GM comes with 10 encounters a day adventures, which is going to ruin 75% of the classes, not just the Ninja.
I find the figther more reliable, but the Ninja is really nice, the features tested don't seem broken, maybe some fine tunning is needed.
Typos, Clarifications, Etc..
*Katana proficiency: Is it proficiency in Katana as a martial weapon (two handed) or exotic weapon (two handed and one handed)? The bastard sword rules are a bit vague and we haven't had any character with profiency in "bastard sword", except those that take the "exotic weapon proficiency" feat. I ruled exotic proficiency.
*Ki Pool Extra Attack: When can you decide to spend the Ki Point? Do you have to declare it before making the attacks, or you can decide so after making all the full round attacks?
*Rogue Talent: The wording is too complicated for what seems to be intent. I don't know if this ability grants you a Rogue Talent, just allows you to select a rogue talent instead of a ninja trick in the future (so you lose this Ninja Trick) or replace one existing Ninja trick for a Rogue Talent. If the intent is just to say that Ninjas can select any Rogue Talent as they do with Ninja Tricks things like "The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of this ninja trick" would be more clear, or just "You get a Rogue Talent".
*Shadow Clone: The text says 1d4 duplicates. Then "using the ninja’s level as her caster level", which may increase the number of duplicates. If the level should modify the spell duration only then "lasts 1 minute per ninja’s level" should be enough. If Shadow Clone is meant to give you more than 1d4 duplicates then I can only say that it would be quite better than Rogue's "Major Magic".
*Light Steps: I'm not sure if it's a special movement action with special rules, or just an improvement of your nomal movement. My first question is "can you use the Stealth skill while using Light Steps?". My second question is "does it allow you to ignore spells that modify surfaces such as Spike Growth?"
*Advanced Talents: Same wording problem "Rogue Talent" has.
*Ghost Step: Are you incorporeal for anything else than ignoring walls? (you may provocke AoOs while doing this movement)
*Forgotten Trick: I don't understand how the clause "can use that ninja trick for a number of rounds equal to her level." interacts with Ninja Tricks that last 1 round, minutes, or haven't got any duration.
* Light Armor Restrictions: Some Ninja's Core Ability (i.e. Light Steps) should be restricted to light armor, for some flavor at least.
| IkeDoe |
Comparing the Rogue (Core Rulebook + APG options) and the Ninja:
The Ninja is basically an oriental Rogue that doesn't care too much about the trap disabling bussiness, likes poisoning and gets new ninja-like options for all your ninja needs. Many ninja abilities were actually available purchasing magic items. Even if you try to create very different characters both classes (actually class and alternate class) are very similar, it isn't a case of comparing apples and oranges.
One thing I like is that the trap-master niche is still here for the rogue (unless some ninja archetype gives trapfinding to the ninja)
Lack of Light or Medium Armor Restrictions
Rogue's Evasion is restricted to light armor, Monk's Ki-Pool extra attack can only be used with no armor... yet no single ability for the Ninja is restricted to light or medium armor. I haven't seen any game balance or flavour reason for such omision.
With so many abilities to become invisible skill checks penalties aren't that important, so using a feat to get Medium or even Heavy Armor is too tempting.
Light Steps should be restricted to light armor, makes sense, and a few other abilities should be restricted too. I would restrict Light Steps and the ability to do extra attacks.
Ability Scores: Basically the same as the Rogue for the same builds. Dumping Charisma below 10 isn't a good idea, but raising Charisma over 10 isn't mandatory either, Charisma based abilities just open the door to Charisma based builds.
Skills: The Rogue gets knowledge (Dungeoneering), the Ninja gets knowledge (Nobility), not a big difference here. Dungeons is a bit more useful because it can be used to recognize monsters.
Weapon proficiencies: The Rogue gets hand crossbow, rapier and sap. The Ninja gets Kama, Katana, Nunchaku, Sai, Shuriken, Siangham and Wakizashi. Note that both get simple weapons, short sword and shortbow too.
Siangham and Kama are similar to simple weapons (light mace, sickle), the Sai is a suboptimal Nunchaku.
The Nunchaku is ok if you want to disarm someone, so it is a good replacement for the sap (used to deal subdual damage).
The Shuriken seems a valid replacement for the hand crossbow.
The rapier (high crit one handed weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse) is replaced by the Katana (better than longsword, but can't be used with weapon finesse, it can be used two-handed or one-handed). Short Swords can still be used by High Dex Ninjas going for Two-Weapon-Fighting and rapier is only used in some Rogue builds, so no complaints here, actually it adds to the flavor of the class.
To have Ninjas using the katana one-handed as Samurais is kinda disturbing, but I don't think we are gonna see many Ninjas doing such thing.
Trapfinding is replaced by Poison Use. Seems a fair modification.
I.e. The APG "Poisoner" (Rogue Archetype) does the same thing (archetypes should be seen as a whole but at least it provides a reference)
"Trap Sense" is replaced by "No Trace" and later "Light Steps" (altough Light Steps can be considered a new ability that replaces nothing).
Not sure how much Trap Sense is worth, the APG "Rake" (Rogue Archetype) changes Trap Sense for "Rake's Smile" which gives roughly as many skill bonuses as "No Trace". Furthermore "Light Steps" gives you the ability to ignore traps -among other things-, and "per se" seems almost as useful as Trap Sense.
IMO No Trace + Light Steps is quite a better deal than Trap Sense, maybe one of them should be toned down/ made optional or made into a Ninja Trick.
It can also be argued that the Cha requirements for the Ninja pay for Light Steps.
The Ninja gets Hidden Master instead of Master Strike. It is a 20th level ability, I don't care much to be honest (except that it may ruin Epic Levels)
Master Strike usually means that everytime you make a sneak attack the target rolls a DC20 Fortitude save to avoid being slain (a high level PC usually gets +15 to +20 Fort, Bestiary creatures with CR 17+ have at least +19 Fort). You can increase the DC investing money in headbands.
Hidden Master drains 2 precious Ki Points (out of 10 unless you are playing an oriental Mata Hari) and a standard action to get Greater Invisibility (that isn't countered by True Vision and that kind of spells) for 20 consecutive rounds (1 encounter in most cases). So in a 4-5 encounters adventure you could be always invisible using the Ki Points you get instead of Evasion, it prevents spellcasters from casting many spells against you and allows you to use sneak attack almost every time. Well, seems fair, specially when an allied spellcaster can cast Greater Invisibility at any Rogue.
However Hidden Master also allows you to change Sneak Attack dices for a maxium of 10 damage to one ability score, it means that 3 sneak attacks (+105 average damage) can be changed for -5 to AC, about 75-100 damage (depends on foe HDs) and -5 attack/damage, without any save. As I understand it, this use of the ability doesn't require you to be invisible or spend Ki points.
So, what's better, becoming invisible and dealing high penalties to the enemy or forcing a save vs death that is only failed 5-10% of the time? The Rogue Capstone ability isn't any good, but Hidden Master seems better than most 20th level abilities.
Evasion is replaced by Ki-Pool.
Note that the Ninja can get Evasion (and even improved evasion) later using an advanced talent, so by no means Evasion is forbidden to Ninjas, it's just optional. Upgrading from nothing to Evasion seems as good as upgrading from Evasion to Improved Evasion, so an advanced talent seems worth it.
Now it raises an interesting question, if Evasion is a Master Trick, will Rogues get Ki-Pool (or similar stuff) as an advanced Talent? should they?
Well, what's Evasion worth? Some APG Archetypes replace Evasion for other advantages (archetypes should be seen as a whole, but it provide a reference). The "Guide" allows you to reroll an attack (or an attack that hits you), 1 to 3 times per day. "Monk of Sacred Mountain" gets the feat Toughness and +1 natural bonus to AC. The "Weapon Adept" and the "Zen Archer" get Weapon Focus and Weapon Especialization.
Ki-Pool gives you 1 to 10 ki points (raises with your level, can be increased or decreased modifying your Cha). Without taking in mind Ninja Tricks that consume Ki points (optional, all the rogue talents are available), it already gives you advantages. If you have remaining Ki points you get bonuses to Jump. You can use 1 Ki for getting one extra attack for one full attack (similar to haste). Or you can use 1 Ki to increase your speed 20' in one round. Or you can use 1 Ki to get +4 to Stealth.
For a med of high level character I would have a hard time choosing between having the extra attack 5 to 10 rounds per day instead of bonus feats plus especialization or +1 to AC. However the extra abilities and versatility make Ki-Pool better.
Now, what if the Ninja tries to get Evasion buying a magic item and the Rogue tries to get benefits similar to Ki-Pool using magic items too?
The Ninja gets a Ring of Evasion, 25000 gps.
The Rogue gets a Ring of Jumping (10000 gps), improves his armor with the Shadow ability +5 to Stealth (+3750 gps) and gets Boots of Speed (12000 gps, Haste 10 rounds per day). Total 25750 gp.
Now, the rogue is using one more slot and the Ninja can also get those items (specially the Boots). Haste gives more than one attack, but Ki-Pool stacks with Haste. Also note that you can get Jump bonuses and Haste with potions or external spells. Finally a Ninja shouldn't dump his Cha below 10 (Cha 8 would decrease Ki-Points to zero at level 2, Cha 7 would be even worse)
IMO Ki-Pool extra attacks shouldn't stack with Haste, to avoid insane ammounts of attacks per round, nova-ing (burning all resources in a single encounter), etc.. Otherwise I'm ok with it.
Note: Since the Monk's Ki extra attack stacks with Haste (afaik) and you can combine Monk and Ninja Ki Pools I suspect that Paizo won't change that.
Ninja Tricks: The Ninja can learn Rogue Talents and many new Ninja Tricks. It opens new options, but it isn't necessarily Power Creeping, tricks should be studied on a case by case basis.
Note that Ninja Tricks that spend Ki points are more powerful that usual Rogue Talents, but without using Ninja Tricks you can already spend Ki-points to get powerful benefits. To compare with a rogue think about it: If a Rogue's trick would prevent you from using Evasion for a number of rounds, shouldn't it be more powerful?
There is the list of Ninja-exclusive Tricks:
TRICKS
* Acrobatic Master: It can be used, i.e. to move without provocking AoOs, at high levels you still need to invest skill points in Acrobatics (or get high Dex) to beat those CMDs of 40+. You spend a Ki point, loosing one extra attack per round to avoid an AoO seems fair to me. It's in the line of Ledge Walker, taking in mind that Acrobatic Master has limited uses.
* Choking Bombs: Prerequisites "Poison Bombs" and "Smoke Bombs". It enhances the Smoke Bombs. Nice for Charisma based Ninjas. It uses a standard action, the effect is a smokestick 15' radius, plus a Fort save (DC 11 to 20, for Cha10 guys level 1-20) for 1d4 rounds staggered (1 action/round). You can use Smoke Bombs 1/day, plus 1 use per Ki Point spent. High level monsters only fail that save rolling 1, for low level monsters the DC isn't difficult. Note that you can't get that trick before level 6. Works for me.
* Darkvision: Get Darkvision 60' for 1 hour using 1 Ki point. After playing a Dwarf with Darkvision I can say that Darkvision for 1 hour isn't worth more than this. Also note that 300 gp potions can give you Darkvision too.
* Deadly Range: How many times can you sneak attack with a ranged weapon? not many. Not overpowered IMO. However it should be available to Rogues.
* Feather Fall: Once per day, then 1 use per 1 Ki point spent. There are other easy ways to get featherfall (rings, boots..), and unless your GM loves cliffs you aren't going to use it often. A rogue would need to get "Major Magic" to get the same effect, but that would be 2 times per day and the ability to cast it on other characters. Ok for me.
* Flurry of Stars: Use 1 Ki Point to get 2 extra attacks with Shurikens, but suffer -2 to all attacks. Let's see, usually you can use 1 Ki-Point to get 1 extra attack without penalties, so what we actually get here is 1 extra attack for -2 to attack, sounds like Rapid Shot to me. Not Overpowered.
* Forgotten Trick: It needs rewording, so you use 1 Ki-Point and you can use an unknown ninja-only-trick paying any extra cost it requires. Seems a reasonable use of Ki-Points, altough it looks like an ability that can lead to some exploit. The problem is what "can use
that ninja trick for a number of rounds equal to her level." means, there are ninja tricks that last less than that, Forgotten Trick should allow you to perfom unknown ninja tricks, not performing them better than someone that selected those Tricks. Furthermore it shouldn't benefit from the 1/day free clause of many powers, or one trick will give you access to a lot of powerful tricks without any extra Ki cost.
* Hidden Weapons: How many times are you going to use it? Not overpowered. It should be available to Rogues IMO.
* Ki Block: Weird ability that can only be used against Monks and Ninjas. The DC isn't very high unless you are playing a High Cha Ninja, note that Monks have high Will saves. Ok for me.
* Ki Charge: Use 1 Ki Point and a standard action and cast a mini-fireball. 10' burst, maximum 5d6 damage at 15th level, DC=10+1/2 level +Cha mod. Similar to using Necklaces of Fireballs (1650 gps). It is the equivalent of a spell that could be between 1st and 2nd level, rogues can cast a 1st level spell 2/day, but that talent has prerequisites, I think that the Ki-Point tax is worth ignoring the requisites. Works for me, slighty overpowered at most.
* Poison Bombs: Prerequisites "Smoke Bombs". Add poison (and pay for it :p) to your smoke bombs. No problem.
* Pressure Points: It is a minor version of Crippling Strike (and advanced talent). Errated "Offensive Defense" is better than this. Not Overpowered IMO.
* Shadow Clone: Standard action that uses 1 Ki point. As I understand it the ninja level only increases the duration of the spell, not the number of images that is always 1d4. The Images last 1 minute/level. It is a second level spell with limitations, Rogues can take a talent (with prerequisites) to cast a 1st level spell 2/day (usually personal spells like Shield). Spending 1 Ki-Point, the limit to images and the number of usages pay for the level difference and the lack of requisites IMO. Another way to get Mirror Image without this ninja trick is maximizing Use Magic Device and get a wand or scrolls (high level characters only), Mirror Image can't be made into a potion. Balanced IMO.
* Slow Metabolism: Poison doesn't come into play so often, so I'm ok with the ability. However it should be a Rogue Talent too.
* Smoke Bombs: 1/day for free, then 1 Ki-point per use. Standard action. It's a smokestick with 15' radius. Works for me.
* Sudden Disguise: Seems better than "Quick Disguise" in the APG. Ok, Sudden Disguise in free 1/day only, but how many times do you disguise in a day? Yet...I've seen worse. Slighty overpowered (ignoring that Quick Disguise is far from a must-have)
* Undetected Sabotage: Seems of little use to me. Should be a Rogue Talent too.
* Vanishing Trick: Invisibility 1 round/level, 1/day free, then 1 Ki point per use, swift action. It is a limited 2nd level spell, the duration makes it suitable only for combat, it's ok. It's similar to the case of Mirror Image, but Mirror Image was a Personal spell (which is better), however Vanishing Trick is free 1 time per day, ok. The Ki point use for additional uses would balance it with the Rogue Trick for 1st level spells. What troubles me is the action required, a swift action. Casting a spell, drinking a potion or using an invisiblity ring takes a standard action. "Vanishing Trick" should take at least 1 move action OR not being free 1/day.
Well, now let's see it from another Point of View, I can use the Ki Point to do an extra attack, or I can use one Ki Point to get Invisible (which allows me to move without provoking AoOs, making "Acrobatic Master" useless, OR attack someone for one Sneak Attack, unless the enemy can see invisible stuff). Waiting to use the Ki Pool for an extra attack when you flank someone is basically the same as adding Sneak Attack whenever you want using Invisibility, you can only get the extra attack while doing full round attacks, and invisibility doesn't work against a few creatures. Having to spend a Ninja Trick should pay for everything else you can do while invisible (as moving without provocking AoOs whithout rolling Acrobatics). So it can take a swift action as Ki-Pool does, but I disagree with the free use per day, If you want to use it more often increase your Charisma, you punk! :p . Slighty Overpowered.
* Ventriloquism: No Rogue would take "Major Magic" to cast Ventriloquism, so I'm ok with this trick.
* Wall Climber: Having Climb speed is great. It is balanced just because the Ninja is already an excellent jumper, so it doesn't match very well with other Ninja abilities. I wouldn't make it into a Rogue Talent.
MASTER TRICKS (advanced talents)
* Assassinate: Good for Cha based Ninjas. Similar to the Assassin PrC "Death Attack" but it only takes one round to study the target. On the other hand it has more restrictions that "Death Attack", i.e. it only works when you deny the Dex modifier to the enemy (which isn't difficult out of combat or for someone that can become invisible). I could be compared with APG's "Knock-Out Blow" Rogue Advanced Talent, but it's limited to 1 use per day. I would make Assassinate a X uses/day ability to avoid possible exploits. And it should be available as an Advanced Rogue Talent. Slighty Overpowered IMO.
* Blinding Bombs: You need Choking Bombs (which was nice), Smoke Bombs and Poison Bombs first. Same as Choking Bombs but you blind the enemies, it can't be combined with Choking Bombs. Ok for me.
* Master Disguise: You need "sudden disguise", it is a more powerful version of the ability. Basically now it lasts far more than a few minutes, so you don't have to use Ki-Points every now and then. In comparison APG's "Master Disguise" gives you +10 to disguise once per day. Balanced for me (if any, it is Sudden Disguise which was unbalanced).
*Evasion: The Ninjas got your Evasion, now it is time to get it back... If upgrading Evasion to Improved Evasion is an Advanced Talent then Evasion as a Master Ninja Trick seems reasonable. Ok. But.. does it mean that Ki-Pool would be reasonable as a Rogue Advanced Talent?
* Ghost Step: It doesn't make you incorporeal as Gaseous Form, it just allows you to pass through walls. Not very useful. Not Overpowered.
* Invisible Blade: Prerequisite "Vanishing Trick". It upgrades Vanishing Trick from Invisibility to Greater Invisibility. Greater Invisibility is a 4th level spell that already lasts 1 round/level. Usually a rogue only gets that ability when the Wizard casts that on him, or spending ranks in Use Magic Device (and money in expensive 4th level Scrolls and Wands). It is also similar to the Arcane Trickster PrC 9th level ability. Dust of Dissapearance can be used too (2d6 rounds, 3500 gps, standard action, but many anti-invisibility spells don't work). You can get that ability at level 10, you'll have 4-5 Ki points then, plus a free use per day, the ability lasts 10 rounds, it means that you can use greater invisibility in every encounter. Note that Vanishing Trick and Invisible Blade can't be dispelled. It can only be compared with "Hunter’s Surprise" from the APG: once per day one round, no prerequisites. I'll just say that this ability should be playtested in a high level adventure.
* See the Unseen: Swift action to cast See Invisibility. Free 1/day, more uses cost Ki Points (usually you don't need to cast it more than once, because it lasts 10 minutes/level). It's a Personal range 2nd level spell that isn't used so often as Mirror Image, if a minor version of Mirror Image was ok as a ninja Trick (Shadow Clone), "See Invisibility" seems ok as a Master Trick.
* Shadow Split: Prerequisite Shadow Clone. It isn't that useful because the clon runs only in one direction, it just helps you to escape or can be used to provoke AoOs. No action, 1/day for free, then 1 use per Ki Point. Not Overpowered.
* Unbound Steps: Limited Air-Walk, it's ok because Light-Steps already does the job in many cases.
Conclusions:
It isn't broken, but the power creep needs to be toned down a bit. If the Rogue needs Power Creep the solution isn't a new class similar to the Rogue, the solution are new feats and talents that can be used by all Rogues, archetypes and Variants.
Proposed Changes/Additions:
* Either Ki-Pool, No Trace or Light Steps has to be toned down. As a minimum I would remove the bonus to Stealth from No Trace OR the option to get a Stealth bonus using Ki-Points. Ninjas are masters of stealth, etc etc. ok, ok, but one special ability plus optional abilities related to invisibility and stealth are more than enough.
* Either one of the abilities related to Ki-Pool, No Trace or Light Steps has to be restricted to wearing light armor. I would restrict Light Steps and the ability to do extra attacks.
* Hidden Master owns most 20th level abilities, the ability damage should be available only while the "greater invisibility" from Hidden Master is in effect.
* The following Ninja Tricks should be Rogue Talents too: Deadly Range, Hidden Weapons, Slow Metabolism, Undetected Sabotage, Assassinate (Advanced Talent).
* Forgotten Trick: Remove the sentence "can use that ninja trick for a number of rounds equal to her level.", the ninja trick should be used when Forgotten Trick is used, and should last what the Ninja Trick usually lasts. Forgotten Trick shouldn't benefit from the "1 free use per day" clase of most ninja tricks, if you want to cast Mirror Image and Invisibility without having those tricks pay 2 Ki-Points (1 for Forgotten Trick, 1 for the unknown Trick). It may be already the RAI, but the RAW aren't very clear.
* Vanishing Trick: Shouldn't be free 1/day, if you want to be invisible just use Ki-Points, the ability (and Invisible Blade) is worth it. More balance, less "per day" abilities to track, more hapiness.
* Assassinate: Should be limited to X uses per day (i.e. 3/day or 1/2 level per day).
* Invisible Blade: Removing the free use per day from Vanishing Trick should help to balance things, but it still needs more playtesting, nothing more to say about it for now.
* New Rogue Advanced Talent (optional): "Exotic Training". You have learned some basic tecniques from a Monk or a Ninja. You get 1/2 rogue level + Charisma modifier Ki points. By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a rogue can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack. It can't be selected as a Ninja Trick.
The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. If the rogue possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, rogue levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The rogue can now use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class she possesses that grants a ki pool.
The proposed changes just put both classes roughly in the same line, I'm not trying to balance things to the last iota.