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Here are my notes from my first playtest with a level 1 Gunslinger in PFS play. Even though I was level 1 the session was played a tier 3-4.
I took a human. As other have noted you need a lot of feats to make this thing work and not being a human makes that difficult task even worse. My grit pool was 3 and I took the pistols. For my traits I took Tomb Raider to give me Perception as a class skill and Reactionary to boost my init mod. Both of these seem key to who a gunslinger is. Paying for more init mod with a trait is fine as I'm looking for something beyond my dex bonus (+3), but paying for Perception made me feel dirty. My overall init mod is +5 at 1st level. My feats were Rapid Reload (pistol) and Secret Stash Deed. I don't see how this could be any fun whatsoever without Rapid Reload, it was hard enough with it. I also feel like Secret Stash is probably a near must for PFS play especially at 11 gp/shot. I took light armor (chain) so I could keep my 30' move. The 20' range increment seems like being able to move (when not reloading) will be key.
First encounter I got to shoot something on the first try! 2 damage though. Use 1 grit for secret stash and get 3 more bullets. There is no indication of what kind of action this should take, I assume free. We were attacked on 2 fronts so some of the PCs went one way and the main fighter tank (AC 27) went the other. After reload, shoot 2nd round (3 damage that time) there were plenty of melee combatants to deal with 2 mooks and the fighter tank's D20 seemed very cold, so I started moving that direction on round 3. I burned another grit for deadeye as the fighter was now 0 for 3 on the leader, managed 6 damage. Felt great to hit a big tin can that our fighter kept missing, touch indeed! I've got a +4 on my attack so shooting into melee (with no cover) is just a straight roll on touch AC, so I can live with that. Got another hit on him the next round (4 damage). By now it's just turning into a close combat melee mess so I switch to my battle axe and do 9 damage. Combat is pretty much over at that point. All in all feeling pretty good. Damage was low, but I was hitting stuff. Even an extra 5' on the first range increment would help me and getting some kind of static bonus to my shots would be fantastic.
Second encounter 6 opponents in very, very tight quarters. Taking a lot of -6 and -8 shots, again hitting a lot just not getting more than about 3-4 points of damage a shot. Got my first kill of the day, grit back to 2. Since I've got two pistols and rapid reload the choices of when to move, reload, drop a pistol and draw the other all seem nice actually. I feel like I've got a lot of choices about what I can/should be doing to support the party.
Third encounter fight in a pretty open area including a spell caster. I wish I felt like the pistols would be helpful in disrupting spell casting, but I'm just not seeing good damage/damage rolls. At the end of combat spend both remaining grit on Secret Stash, leaving with a grand total of 49 shots out of 50 :)
I think I hit 7 out of 10 shots which is way better than the 3rd level fighter was doing with his long sword. :)
The problem is that I think I need Point Blank and Deadly Aim (does that even work?) and Precise Shot (though I was still doing pretty good with a lot of -6 or -8 shots). That's 5th level. Gunslinger Initiative at 3rd looks nice, but should really come at 2nd. Getting my dex mod (+4 by then) to damage at 5th level will be way too late, but a welcome addition whenever I can get it.
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A fair number of people seem to think it's 50 shots + either 2 pistols or one musket.
In fact it's "musket and 50 shots" OR "two pistols", as both of these options are worth right about 2,000 gold.
minor and common point of confusion aside, very nice playtest. Close Quarters are hard for low-level ranged characters, but that's normal. It's good to see that you were able to make your strategy (mobility + conserve ammo) work even at first level - a lot of the things people have been trying haven't worked out so well, maybe your tactic is the way to go at level one.
I think we should have more playtests with low-level gunslingers taking the "two pistols" option - it seems to give the best overall performance at pre-Signature Deed levels.
We know that musket misfires + long musket reloads = waiting for multiple rounds before acting, which is not fun. We also know that the class performs fairly well after 12th level, and that this threshold needs to be lowered to around 5th or so, which is the latest that most other classes "turn on".
What I would like to see more of is how the class does when at it's best at low levels.
In fact it's "musket and 50 shots" OR "two pistols", as both of these options are worth right about 2,000 gold.
If this is the case, good luck being a pistolier. You're going to have to get used to using anything but your pistols. Before you can reliably afford to upkeep them, you'll have put more investment into some other weapon and probably multiclassed since you get absolutely zero out of gunslinger.
By then, you've probably also asked the DM to let you retrain your starting gunslinger level, too, since it's utterly worthless.
Congratulations.
:P
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In fact it's "musket and 50 shots" OR "two pistols", as both of these options are worth right about 2,000 gold.If this is the case, good luck being a pistolier. You're going to have to get used to using anything but your pistols. Before you can reliably afford to upkeep them, you'll have put more investment into some other weapon and probably multiclassed since you get absolutely zero out of gunslinger.
By then, you've probably also asked the DM to let you retrain your starting gunslinger level, too, since it's utterly worthless.
Congratulations.
:P
It is indeed one musket and ammo, or 2 pistols. You'd have to spend some of your initial funds on ammo and Secret stash is a must.
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played 2-11 The Penumbral Accords tier 4-5
i went with halfing, musket an 50 shot, 19 dex and 16 wis.
only having 1 feat makes it a little rough but with a base +6 and a extra +1 from point blank i hit most of the time. the one problem i had was the full round reload so after the first shot i would change to a light crossbow, average damage was 3 tell last fight where i opened up with a crit of 29 it was great the look on the gm's face and then the HOW? it was a good laugh for the whole table. plan on taking deadly aim (i don't see why it wouldn't work) at 5th looking at +11 hit +10 damage with DA 6 from dex 4 form DA.
until 5th level gunslingers are a little behind in damage but the touch attack makes up for it and we still beat out crossbow users and after 5th we beat out all others but only so long as we have enough loaded guns on hand
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In fact it's "musket and 50 shots" OR "two pistols", as both of these options are worth right about 2,000 gold.
Arrrg. That makes me feel like a tool. I will have to do the best to make my Chronicle reflect the needed corrections. At last I played up to tier 3-4 and got ~ 1200 gp so I certain can afford some ammo now.
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Like I said, it's an easy mistake to make, the line is worded badly. Two pistols cost 2,000 gold, 1 musket + 50 bullets + 50 gunpowder = 2,050 gold, so I'm pretty sure it's "gun and ammo" or "2 guns".
But in any event, the play-tester only ended up using one shot. If you assume the two pistols come loaded, no rules were broken.
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Like I said, it's an easy mistake to make, the line is worded badly. Two pistols cost 2,000 gold, 1 musket + 50 bullets + 50 gunpowder = 2,050 gold, so I'm pretty sure it's "gun and ammo" or "2 guns".
But in any event, the play-tester only ended up using one shot. If you assume the two pistols come loaded, no rules were broken.
Which is a really, really dumb assumption. In PFS you get nothing you're not explicitly told.
The pistols do not come loaded, because you get no bullets.
+1
Also, in PFS the pistols AND musket have an effective value of 'zero.' Thus 50 shots for either would be a reasonable way to read the rules, since it's the same cost-wise either way.
Huh? Where do you get this? Having a resale value of zero, to prevent rules hacks, is not the same as having a cost of zero.
This is the same rules change that causes anything you "purchase" using the "1 PA for 150 gp cost" and "2 PA for 750 gp cost" item to have a resale value of zero, as well.
Too many people were using this rule to convert 2 PA at a time into an actual 375 gp, and using that money, when it was added up, to purchase things thay they otherwise could not afford legally.
The rule, as written, for gunslingers is that they receive either a musket with 50 bullets and 50 black powder charges for free, or two pistols, with no bullets or black powder charges, for free.
They both have a market value, if the character had to purchase them, of approximately 2,000 gp.
The PFS rule is simply to make sure that the gunslinger remains a gunslinger, and that you don't get a character taking a level in Gunslinger in order to get the free stuff, and selling it off to enchant their armor, for "free" to +1 or some such boondoggle.
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The PFS rule is simply to make sure that the gunslinger remains a gunslinger, and that you don't get a character taking a level in Gunslinger in order to get the free stuff, and selling it off to enchant their armor, for "free" to +1 or some such boondoggle.
It may be there to prevent you from selling it off to get a +1 to some other class or profiting off of a dip in gunslinger, but it does equate to the pistol and rifle being worthless, since you can't even sell one pisol for more than 2 shots of gunpowder and 2 bullets.
for a 1st level PFS gunslinger with 150gp who chooses 2 pistols, and doesn't get any bullets, you're shafted with having to purchase armor, gear, melee and ranged weapons and provisions in the most expensive ammo class ever. ( 25 gp on studded leather leaves you with 125 gp for ammo, - 20gp for some melee backup weapon ( more if your smart for a variety of weapons to overcome DR ), and you've got gold for less than 10 shots. If you don't take the Secret Stash feat, that's 10 shots to carry you through your first adventure, and a future of spending upwards of 100gp per adventure on ammunition to fund your character. For what? a ranged touch attack and a 1d8 / x4 crit weapon? Can I ask if Alchemists get charged a surcharge for their bombs? Do the designers somehow equate 3 + Int bombs / day to 11gp per bullet ? I realize they're trying to work in some kind of market value to the equipment, but ammunition for a bow is 1gp for 20 arrows. most gamers don't even keep track of it at that rate. sling bullets are free. For a range-focus class, they've handicapped them from the start by charging over 200% more than any other weapon for ammunition and making it harder to reload than a crossbow.
For the starting ammunition, I think its just an inconveniently worded paragraph in the gunslinger class and hope it'll get fixed for PFS rules lawyers. Otherwise Secret Stash becomes a MUST HAVE feat, which eats up your first level feet entirely, and sucks some of the flavor / variety out of low level gunslingers. In cases where it comes to that, it should just be made into a starting grit ability, not taken as an extra feat.
edit: blah. nevermind some of this. just downloaded the round 2 version of the gunslinger document. granting the gunsmith feat for free does mitigate the cost somewhat, 11sp instead of 11gp / shot. still expensive but much more manageable. and they removed the wording on the starting weapon. kudos for the changes.
It's your first adventure as a PFS character. No one, gunslinger or otherwise, is going to have all the gear they want to have.
I've seen plenty of archer builds who don't have all the gear they want for quite a while, and the full plate and MW greatsword look takes even longer to afford.
Spend a little bit of money on ammo, buy studded leather and find a club. Live through adventure one, and you'll have some more gold to work with.
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i know what you can get with a first level character. with 150gp as a starting archer i can get a bow, and ya know what? 20 arrows will only cost me 1gp. its a negligible effect on my character.
with gunslinger, yes i'm given my battered gun. but those 20 shots i'm going to buy, and will need to keep track of like no other character, will cost me 22 gold. a non-negligible cost.
its better than the round 1 document, where the same 22 shots would have cost me 220 gold.
Its a high cost, with no offset, and its a continued cost. because yah, after my first game i've got ~500gp to spend. and ya know what 300 of it is going to upgrade my gun to masterwork, and i'm going to need to restock up to 20 bullets, and buy some paper cartridges so that i can reload faster when i need to. The first level ranger that gets 500gp can spend 1gp , minimum of a day job result, and restock their 20 arrows, and spend 500gp upgrading their bow and saving up for better armor or something else, not spending another 20gp on bullets and 12gp / pop on paper cartridges.
Gunslingers expenditures lean very heavy on the consumable side of things. which leaves them in the long run, deficient on permanent bonuses.
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In fact it's "musket and 50 shots" OR "two pistols", as both of these options are worth right about 2,000 gold.If this is the case, good luck being a pistolier. You're going to have to get used to using anything but your pistols. Before you can reliably afford to upkeep them, you'll have put more investment into some other weapon and probably multiclassed since you get absolutely zero out of gunslinger.
By then, you've probably also asked the DM to let you retrain your starting gunslinger level, too, since it's utterly worthless.
Congratulations.
:P
Given how crap the slinger is at low lvl, being a pistolier is a non issue - until you can actually do real damage with your weapons they are not worth the money to shoot. So until lvl 5 running around with an axe is probably your best bet :P
Personally I would not make a Gunslinger unless I was playing in a campaign starting at lvl 5, it's too depressing before then