Camouflage and hide in plain sight

[leo1925]

Can someone explain to me the diferrences between those two abilities?

[Remco Sommeling]

Camouflage (Ex): A ranger of 12th level or higher can
use the Stealth skill to hide in any of his favored terrains,
even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Well they might have called it hide in plain sight as well really with the sidenote it only can be used in his favored terrains.

Hide in plain sight for the shadow dancer requires him to be within 10 feet of shadow or darkness I think ?

Besides the situations in which it can be used there is no real difference.

[leo1925]

I meant the ranger's hide in plain sight.

Camouf lage (Ex): A ranger of 12th level or higher can
use the Stealth skill to hide in any of his favored terrains,
even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any of his favored
terrains, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth
skill even while being observed.

What's the difference between being observed and being able to hide without cover or concealment since the stealth skill reads:
If people are observing you using any of their senses
(but typically sight), you can’t use Stealth. Against most
creatures, f inding cover or concealment allows you to
use Stealth.

[JrK]

Camouflage allows the ranger to hide in the first place, as there is no hiding without cover or concealment. HIPS allows him to hide while being observed, without needing the FULL cover or FULL concealment which would allow the stealth skill, since they both prevent observation.

So you cannot use Camouflage when you've already been spotted, but you could use HIPS. Camouflage allows you stealth in places not normally possible (like in an open field) and prevents people from noticing you in the first place. If they have already noticed you, it is useless. HIPS allows you to stealth when people have noticed you, and could be seen as an 'upgrade' to camouflage.

Cover and concealment allow stealth in so far as they prevent observation.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

Camouflage could be used on an open ice field with no cover or concealment. He lays on his belly in the open and is hidden. But if he being observed this doesn't work.

Hide in Plain Sight allows you to hide when being watched which you normally can't do. Without camouflage, he has to Hide in Plain Sight using cover or concealment.

I want to thank you. I now have the image of a ranger standing in an open field, covering his eyes, and saying "Where did Mr. Ranger go?" Then the next round, dropping his hands, and saying "Peek a boo! Here I am!"

[concerro]

leo1925 wrote:

I meant the ranger's hide in plain sight.

Camouf lage (Ex): A ranger of 12th level or higher can
use the Stealth skill to hide in any of his favored terrains,
even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any of his favored
terrains, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Stealth
skill even while being observed.

What's the difference between being observed and being able to hide without cover or concealment since the stealth skill reads:
If people are observing you using any of their senses
(but typically sight), you can’t use Stealth. Against most
creatures, f inding cover or concealment allows you to
use Stealth.

Camouflage allows you to hide in plain sight(out in the open) as long as you are not being observed when you make the stealth check.

Hide in Plain Sight allows you to hide even while someone is staring you in the face.

Both of them combined means that you can be standing out in the open without anything to hide behind, while someone is staring at you, and you can still be hidden.

[leo1925]

concerro wrote:

Camouflage allows you to hide in plain sight(out in the open) as long as you are not being observed when you make the stealth check.

Hide in Plain Sight allows you to hide even while someone is staring you in the face.

Both of them combined means that you can be standing out in the open without anything to hide behind, while someone is staring at you, and you can still be hidden.

So no camouflage during combat?

[concerro]

leo1925 wrote:

concerro wrote:

Camouflage allows you to hide in plain sight(out in the open) as long as you are not being observed when you make the stealth check.

Hide in Plain Sight allows you to hide even while someone is staring you in the face.

Both of them combined means that you can be standing out in the open without anything to hide behind, while someone is staring at you, and you can still be hidden.

So no camouflage during combat?

Correct. It does allow you to set up ambushes though. If you can hide in the middle of an open area before the enemy gets there you are good.

[Ughbash]

Camoflauge allows you to hide in an open area with no cover or concealment but you can not do so if someoen is observing you at the time.

Hide in plain sight allows you to make a hide check when someone is looking right at you... but you need some cover or concelement you can not do it in the middle of an open field.

Combine the two and you are golden.