Heh now let me just say I can guess what the rules as intended are but, as far as I can tell rules as written this should be ok
Rule in question
Brutality (Ex)
At 3rd level, a chymist in her mutagenic form deals +2 damage when attacking with simple weapons and natural attacks. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level and to +6 at 9th level.
Notice the word melee or ranged is not mentioned anywhere in this rule.
A Crossbow is a simple weapon.
with 9 levels of Master Chymist you can add +6 dmg on every attack on top of whatever you can squeeze of crossbow feats and enchantments.
I don't think there's anyway other class or variant that can offer this amount of damage bonus for using a crossbow. With MC levels you'll get 4 base iterative attacks as well.
Heh no don't ask me why being a hulking bestial brutal mutated freak makes you bolts hit harder ... but it does ;)
Makes me think that a halfling war slinger might not be a bad choice: It does everything your crossbow guy does but can use a light shield and adds strength to damage as well.
Makes me think that a halfling war slinger might not be a bad choice: It does everything your crossbow guy does but can use a light shield and adds strength to damage as well.
I believe they still need 2 free hands to reload even though the can reload as a free action , so no shield
between giving yourself a +6 to STR/DEX from mutagen and +4 to the other your going to be pretty effective
Makes me think that a halfling war slinger might not be a bad choice: It does everything your crossbow guy does but can use a light shield and adds strength to damage as well.I believe they still need 2 free hands to reload even though the can reload as a free action , so no shield
You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
Makes me think that a halfling war slinger might not be a bad choice: It does everything your crossbow guy does but can use a light shield and adds strength to damage as well.I believe they still need 2 free hands to reload even though the can reload as a free action , so no shieldYou strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
ah of course *facepalm*
heh this is actually a cool idea having a crazy split personaility mutant halfling running around messing people up with an unassuming sling
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Makes me think that a halfling war slinger might not be a bad choice: It does everything your crossbow guy does but can use a light shield and adds strength to damage as well.
Yeah I've been tossing the idea of having a halfling slinger/ alchemist for a while. The sling is nice because it's the only projectile weapon where damage ramps up instantly when your strength increases.
The slinger feat progression has a lot of synergy with bombing also.
As far as I can tell with rapid shot you top out at 5 attacks with the sling.
Unless your able to dual wield slings ? technically the hand holding the sling is considered free for the required two handed reloading, and since the reloading action is a free action, holding two slings should still leave both hands considered free for reloading
That would increase your potential sling attacks to 8 , of course no shield
of course no shield if you dual wield slings , although at best the light shield can offer +6AC and you have to burn a feat on it
although that said the only benefit of dual wielding slings over thrown weapons with the same feats is that you can enchant the slings and ammo more cost effectively than enchanting thrown weapons
still the brutal also works with simple thrown weapons
Brutal +6
Deadly Aim +10
~STR +5-7
Enchanted slings +5
+26 dmg on sling attacks not bad
There's a question actually would Brutal work with improvised weapons ? I'm thinking no but it would really fit the class if it did.
Ultimate Bar fighter ;)
I don't think there's anyway other class or variant that can offer this amount of damage bonus for using a crossbow.
What about fighter? Weapon training 4, plus Weapon Specialisation, plus Greater WS. That's +6 attack, +8 damage. For every single attack. Plus a lot more feats to sink into the stuff you need.
Rangers can do +10 about their favoured enemies. Paladins can do nice things against smite targets.
I don't think there's anyway other class or variant that can offer this amount of damage bonus for using a crossbow.What about fighter? Weapon training 4, plus Weapon Specialisation, plus Greater WS. That's +6 attack, +8 damage. For every single attack. Plus a lot more feats to sink into the stuff you need.
Rangers can do +10 about their favoured enemies. Paladins can do nice things against smite targets.
Remember that it's only 10 levels, so you can still have 10 levels in whatever else you want (or rather, you have to have some in alchemist but the rest can be in something else)
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A Master Chymist need 7 levels of Alxchemist to get the 3rd level extract entry requirement, so if we're talking about a level 10 Mc, it's a level 17 character. At comparable levels, the Fighter will be a better crossbowman.
This means the Fighter has all the bonuses KaeYoss mentions, plus a +2 to hit from the extra BAB. And assuming the Fighter wants to be a crossbow master, he's taken the Crossbowman Archetype, he gets all those useful abilities as well as the damage bonuses.
mmmm +8 STR +6DEX from the grand mutgaen on top of +6 STR/DEX belt for a tasty +14/12 STR/DEX bonus
on a 14(16)STR 18(20) DEX Halfing , 30STR 32DEX, +11 to hit ranged and +10 dmg on slings :)
I don't think there's anyway other class or variant that can offer this amount of damage bonus for using a crossbow.What about fighter? Weapon training 4, plus Weapon Specialisation, plus Greater WS. That's +6 attack, +8 damage. For every single attack. Plus a lot more feats to sink into the stuff you need.
Rangers can do +10 about their favoured enemies. Paladins can do nice things against smite targets.
True
Although when you factor in the other benefits of Alchemist +8 on DEX is +4 to hit vs the -2BAB so overall +2 better off to hit which probabaly even out after weapon spec and fighter feats. so overall +2dmg better off
and while I'll grant ranger and paly offer better bonuses they don't apply to all enemies.
Although if you also factor in everything else the alchemist brings to the table as well as being a crossbowman at -2dmg and some abilites vs fighter spec, I'd say the more combat effective crossbowman is the alchemist.
The Inquisitor, when he goes nova, is IMO the best crossbowman. Crossbows still suck compared to bows. ;)
Although if you also factor in everything else the alchemist brings to the table as well as being a crossbowman at -2dmg and some abilites vs fighter spec, I'd say the more combat effective crossbowman is the alchemist.
Fighters will get other stuff, too. Especially all the feats. And they get all the crossbow stuff earlier. You can't leave the time line out of your considerations since you'll spend a lot more time not being at the highest level than you'll spend being at the highest level.
Isn't being the best crossbow fighter sort of like having the "best" job in a fast food kitchen? Sure.. you're the best of a very bad situation, that doesn't mean that you're good.
Isn't being the best crossbow fighter sort of like having the "best" job in a fast food kitchen? Sure.. you're the best of a very bad situation, that doesn't mean that you're good.You must be referring to the "nothing is better than the composite longbow" rule.
Well, lets see. the crossbow can't be fired more than once per round without blowing 2 feats on rapid reload and crossbow mastery(which is the entire point of an archer class: getting your full attack), can't add strength to damage... its only advantage is a d10 instead of a d8, which is only 1.5 points of damage. A strength of 14 will negate that.
A halfling slinger might be able to compete, but only if the DM Is being a real hard ass about upgrading your strength bow. Even then, you can always start with a 14 strength bow and just always up dex dex dex from there.
Yeah, most of the time it's just better to get the bow and create your character accordingly.
The crosbows do have their applications, but pure warrior archers (with classes like fighter or ranger) are not among them.
I've seen a gnome bard getting decent mileage out of a heavy crossbow who did not overspecialise in archery. Instead, he had good dexterity and charisma (and some intelligence), doing all kinds of bardic stuff in addition to the crossbow shooting. He was quite weak, but that didn't affect his shooting adversely, since crossbows ignore your strength penalty. Bardic music and magic, as well as some feats, provided attack and damage bonuses.
And don't let a cleric of Abadar get his hands on a guided crossbow...
Well, lets see. the crossbow can't be fired more than once per round without blowing 2 feats on rapid reload and crossbow mastery(which is the entire point of an archer class: getting your full attack), can't add strength to damage... its only advantage is a d10 instead of a d8, which is only 1.5 points of damage. A strength of 14 will negate that.Isn't being the best crossbow fighter sort of like having the "best" job in a fast food kitchen? Sure.. you're the best of a very bad situation, that doesn't mean that you're good.You must be referring to the "nothing is better than the composite longbow" rule.
They also have a better crit range, and IMO crit range > crit modifier, especially with all the critical feats. And they can be fired from prone. And they can be used with a light shield, and fired, though not reloaded, with a heavy shield. And they only require one hand to use, which is circumstantially useful, such as allowing you to fire one while climbing.
All in all, the bow is the better choice for a ranged character, but the crossbow has a few benefits which are useful, fireing from prone and threat range being the primary.