So seriously what's going on with the deities in FR? Are more of the gods dead? We follow the 3.5 campaign setting book, so some of the gods are already dead/deposed, but I thought the wiki mentioned my$tra is finally dead dead, He1m is dead dead, etc. Is this so? If so, what if any, deities have replace their places in the pantheon? Certainly I can pretend it never happened in our games, but I'm curious.
I would ask this elsewhere, but hey, I like you guys. Not to mention my gaming groups use the glorious pathfinder rules system! in the FR campaign setting (soon to come to my games: new and improved home brew golarion, now with the FR pantheon!)
It's odd actually, so far golarion has melded rather well geographically with the f@aerun world. Sandpoint is north of calim$han near the beginnings of the $word coast. Magnimar lies west of Sandpoint, and stands as the last great city before the plains of c0rmyr.
Welcome aboard :) Everything in 3.5 is good, ignore 4E and you should be OK for what your Deities are doing :) Otherwise the general discussion on games near the bottom is where you should post, not the general discussion on Pathfinder games ;) But hey, thats ok too :)
I am not sure what the 4E Forgotten Realms are doing, though there are a few people here that are. Most of us have given up on that altogether...
All gods (rocks) explode (fall) and lots of people (everyone) dies! As Shizvestus suggests what you're probably seeing is the resolute of Wizards of the Coast alterations to the setting for 4th Edition D&D, which has basicly zippo to do with Golarion.
Different question, actually comment. Are you originally from the Interwebz? Because I'm loving your lite 133t accent. :P
So seriously what's going on with the deities in FR? Are more of the gods dead? We follow the 3.5 campaign setting book, so some of the gods are already dead/deposed, but I thought the wiki mentioned my$tra is finally dead dead, He1m is dead dead, etc. Is this so? If so, what if any, deities have replace their places in the pantheon? Certainly I can pretend it never happened in our games, but I'm curious.
Spoilered for those who don't want to know.
The dwarven gods Deep Duerra, Gorm, Haela Brightaxe, and Laduguer are dead.
And I don't like the changes either. Should I do a Forgotten Realms game again, I won't be using the changes.
All gods (rocks) explode (fall) and lots of people (everyone) dies! As Shizvestus suggests what you're probably seeing is the resolute of Wizards of the Coast alterations to the setting for 4th Edition D&D, which has basicly zippo to do with Golarion.
Different question, actually comment. Are you originally from the Interwebz? Because I'm loving your lite 133t accent. :P
I am a ha1f-interwebz
Welcome aboard :) Everything in 3.5 is good, ignore 4E and you should be OK for what your Deities are doing :) Otherwise the general discussion on games near the bottom is where you should post, not the general discussion on Pathfinder games ;) But hey, thats ok too :)
I am not sure what the 4E Forgotten Realms are doing, though there are a few people here that are. Most of us have given up on that altogether...
LOL Everything in 2nd Ed Forgotten Realms is good, ignore 3E changes to the gods. Really, the Parthenon worked better back then :)
Bleck the whole reason I like the FR pantheon is the variety is poses, I can be a LG cleric of a death deity(Ke1emv0r) or a NE cleric of a death deity(Velshar00n) non of this pigeon holing!
And yeah, I play clerics alot.
Actually I really like the deities in the Golarion pantheon mysel4, but there is not enough variety for me, I have no qualms with the p@ntheon other than that.
So far I am unaware of where I can find extended information on the pantheon in Golarion, as the core rulebook includes the absolute bare minimum of information on them. I have not used Golarion as a campaign setting and probably missed out on the details in a 3.5 book/AP from paizo.
I am curious as to how/why the Golarion pantheon "blows the FR one out of the wa+er", other than because Paizo made it of course, which I will accept as an answer to my question lol.
well, If you take the Full scope of the deities (more than just the majors) you have pretty much everything covered over several alignments.
though Good and Evil Domains still only belong to good and evil deities (respectively)
at least, I think that's what they were getting at.
So seriously what's going on with the deities in FR?
Whatever you say is going on. You're the GM, it's all up to you.
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LOL Everything in 2nd Ed Forgotten Realms is good, ignore 3E changes to the gods.
Yeah!
Bring on Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Lleira, Mask, etc.! Down with Cyric, Kelemvore and Mystra 2.0! (and the Time of Troubles in general) Throw out the 'Shadow Weave,' and restore Mystra to being the neutral goddess of *all* magic, including illusion, enchantment and necromancy!
I'm such a Realms grognard, I won't even use Sehanine Moonbow, even if she stopped being a 'newcomer' two decades ago. Stupid 'I was always Correlon's wife, and it was my tears, not his blood, that created the elven race' retcon.
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Down with Cyric, Kelemvore and Mystra 2.0!
Even though they were part of 2nd Edition, I am not a fan of those three either.
Just a bunch of players that got an easy going/Monty Haul DM to Ok their divinity.
The Time of Troubles never happened in Ed Greenwood's home game after all.
@ Set: Sehanine grew on me after about a decade or so.
After all someone had to 'comfort' Correlon after Lolth got nasty.
Call Sehanine 'the Home wrecker' if it helps.
:)
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After all someone had to 'comfort' Correlon after Lolth got nasty.
Tangent about johnny-come-lately elf-gods;
Ah, but Sehanine couldn't comfort Correlon *after* Lolth, because she's explicitly claimed to be his first and only wife, and to predate the existence of the elven race (let alone the drow / elf split).
Either Lolth is lying about getting humiliatingly kicked to the curb by her ex (which, uh, why again?) or Sehanine is a big bag of phony claims that make no sense, as befits her being a goddess of secrets and illusions, I suppose...
Plus her name is stupid. Thelandira, Larethian, Celanil, Enorath, Rillithane, Sashelas and, uh, 'Moonbow?' Gosh, was 'Sparklepony' taken?
Ugh. Sehanine invokes my irrational nerdrage.
Besides, a visit to Hanali's pool is all the 'comfort' anyone needs. Sure, they might be father and daughter, but;
A) elves (different rules may apply),
B) gods (no rules apply),
C) dude, she's hot (guy code exception)!
So seriously what's going on with the deities in FR? Are more of the gods dead? We follow the 3.5 campaign setting book, so some of the gods are already dead/deposed, but I thought the wiki mentioned my$tra is finally dead dead, He1m is dead dead, etc. Is this so? If so, what if any, deities have replace their places in the pantheon? Certainly I can pretend it never happened in our games, but I'm curious.
I would ask this elsewhere, but hey, I like you guys. Not to mention my gaming groups use the glorious pathfinder rules system! in the FR campaign setting (soon to come to my games: new and improved home brew golarion, now with the FR pantheon!)
It's odd actually, so far golarion has melded rather well geographically with the f@aerun world. Sandpoint is north of calim$han near the beginnings of the $word coast. Magnimar lies west of Sandpoint, and stands as the last great city before the plains of c0rmyr.
Mystra was killed by Cyric in the time between 3.5 and 4E which brought about a spell plague that she was using like 75% of her power to hold off (nothing says what caused the plague to begin with). when the spell plague hit it killed off a ton of people. Elminster lost all of his power due to he lost his chosen of Mystra abilities (shows you why you should depend on yourself for you power not someone else). this later brought about how the world is now with the abilities working the 4th ed way.
also, i think the pantheon in Golarion is better than those of FR because, simply, they all have more flavor. My favorites being the ones who ascended using the Starstone. Whats not to love about a man who can pole vault over the bottomless pit and complete the test of the Starstone drunk? also, after he won the bet, did Calien go back and ask the guy who bet him for his prize?
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Actually I really like the deities in the Golarion pantheon mysel4, but there is not enough variety for me, I have no qualms with the p@ntheon other than that.
So far I am unaware of where I can find extended information on the pantheon in Golarion, as the core rulebook includes the absolute bare minimum of information on them. I have not used Golarion as a campaign setting and probably missed out on the details in a 3.5 book/AP from paizo.
I am curious as to how/why the Golarion pantheon "blows the FR one out of the wa+er", other than because Paizo made it of course, which I will accept as an answer to my question lol.
Okay, had to comment on this. Golarion has 61 different gods as listed inside the front cover of Gods and Magic. And since then there have been several additions for the non-human races. I would suspect that the Golarion pantheon is pretty close to the FR pantheon in scope and size. And remember, these are just the gods that the inner sea knows about. There are other continents and planets to explore yet. If you want tot play that LG cleric of death, you can choose...Okay, I didn't find any, yet. Or if you want to play the NE cleric of death, you can choose Nrogorber
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* Despite all the smaller/racial deities, the main 20 deities fill most of the "classic" areas.
* Golarion gods aren't as much involved in mortal affairs as FR ones. In fact, they are somewhat detached, to the point of forgetting about their agendas/servants.
* Golarion gods ain't got statblocks. They are out of reach of mortal characters.
* The whole Starstone and mortal-becomes-god idea.
* Coming out of that, Cayden Cailean. Best. Origin of godhood. Story. Ever.
* Just when you think the god is cliche, something pops up and turns your opinion upside down. Erastil seems to be a stereotypical LG "farming, agrarian, family, hunt,let's cuddle together" deity until you realize what conservative, misogynistic old redneck he is.
* Aroden - the death of one of the major gods and the consequences of that are a major part of the background
Down with Cyric, Kelemvore and Mystra 2.0!Even though they were part of 2nd Edition, I am not a fan of those three either.
Just a bunch of players that got an easy going/Monty Haul DM to Ok their divinity.
The Time of Troubles never happened in Ed Greenwood's home game after all.
@ Set: Sehanine grew on me after about a decade or so.
After all someone had to 'comfort' Correlon after Lolth got nasty.
Call Sehanine 'the Home wrecker' if it helps.
:)
The change from 2nd ed to 3rd ed, was when Cyric, Kelemvore, and Midnight became gods. That was part of how they described the changes in magic that came about in 3E.
To be honest, if they had left it alone after that. I would not have minded. But they found a revenue source in writing deities books, and keep on raising dead gods, killing off new gods, and mucking about.
Down with Cyric, Kelemvore and Mystra 2.0!Even though they were part of 2nd Edition, I am not a fan of those three either.
Just a bunch of players that got an easy going/Monty Haul DM to Ok their divinity.
The Time of Troubles never happened in Ed Greenwood's home game after all.
@ Set: Sehanine grew on me after about a decade or so.
After all someone had to 'comfort' Correlon after Lolth got nasty.
Call Sehanine 'the Home wrecker' if it helps.
:)
The change from 2nd ed to 3rd ed, was when Cyric, Kelemvore, and Midnight became gods. That was part of how they described the changes in magic that came about in 3E.
To be honest, if they had left it alone after that. I would not have minded. But they found a revenue source in writing deities books, and keep on raising dead gods, killing off new gods, and mucking about.
Actually, the ascension of those three power gamers marked the change between FIRST edition and 2nd edition! And the time of troubles (when most of them ascended) was the "explanation" for the changes to magic and the disappearance of the assassin class between those two editions.
Which is retarded. That's right, I said retarded......because some things just are.
If you want to use FR deities in Pathfinder, I'd suggest ignoring what happened in 4E entirely and using the 3.0 Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (if you have it/can find it). Beyond ignoring what happened in 4E realms if you didn't like it, you will have the domains and deity-related prestige classes spelled out for 3.x, much easier to convert to Pathfinder.
I agree with Deathquaker. Furthermore, I read from the novels and the 4E Player's Guide what happened to various gods and it makes negligible amounts of sense even if you OD'ed on 3 hallucinogens at a time. Of the well-known gods, the drow pantheon went kaput except Lolth and Ghaunadar, Mystra, Azuth, Velsharoon, Savras, Helm, Tyr, and Mask bought it at different points, Lathander was the chrysalis for stuffy Aumanator, etc. No, stick with 3E for the gods, it's more varied and less ridiculous in terms of the fates of gods (though more ridiculous in terms of number of gods). If I ever were to run a FR campaign again, I'd still slaughter a lot of them and make it stick, but I'd be a tad more rational and less obvious about it.
The change from 2nd ed to 3rd ed, was when Cyric, Kelemvore, and Midnight became gods. That was part of how they described the changes in magic that came about in 3E.Huh/ The time of troubles series was published in '89. That is near the beginning of 2nd ed, not anywhere near 3rd.
You are correct, was change from 1st ed to 2nd ed.
They did have FR Tome of Magic with Midnight in that during 2nd.
(getting scatterbrained in my old age) even had a DM who hated tome of magic when i played a cleric of midnight, and could work my magic in wild/dead magic areas.
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Ah, but Sehanine couldn't comfort Correlon *after* Lolth...
Plus her name is stupid. Thelandira, Larethian, Celanil, Enorath, Rillithane, Sashelas and, uh, 'Moonbow?' Gosh, was 'Sparklepony' taken?Besides, a visit to Hanali's pool is all the 'comfort' anyone needs.
@ Set
I had no love for 'Moonbow' either (too Dragonlace sounding for me!) so I just used Sehanine or Sehanine Cu Ithil (Tolkien High Elvish for 'Moonbow'). In fact I used Tolkien's Elvish to rename many of the Elven Pantheon's titles of address. (Terms like "the Sage at Sunset" or "the Leaflord" seem more appropriate when reworded in High Elven)
And I always liked the Elven myth that Lolth was Corellon's first consort who decided she wanted the whole piece the Elven pie and got her just desserts.
Lastly, Sehanine was the lady Corellon took to all the inter pantheon dinners and galas for appearances sake; Hanali was the Coronal of Arvandor's late night booty call when he wanted to be a Kennedy.
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Actually, the ascension of those three power gamers marked the change between FIRST edition and 2nd edition! And the time of troubles (when most of them ascended) was the "explanation" for the changes to magic and the disappearance of the assassin class between those two editions.
Indeed.
I was no fan of the Godswar novels and hated the modules even more (the PCs got run a round to arrive just in time to watch everyone else do the epic stuff. Phooey.)
I did like the visual of Bane taking all of Bhaal's assassins lives to 'power up' (FR's way of explaining the loss of the assassin class); still, Bane's plan failed, he and (later) Bhaal fell.
And assassins, as a kit, still came back early in second edition.
The more things change, the more things stay the same.
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The change from 2nd ed to 3rd ed, was when Cyric, Kelemvore, and Midnight became gods. That was part of how they described the changes in magic that came about in 3E.Huh/ The time of troubles series was published in '89. That is near the beginning of 2nd ed, not anywhere near 3rd.You are correct, was change from 1st ed to 2nd ed.
They did have FR Tome of Magic with Midnight in that during 2nd.
(getting scatterbrained in my old age) even had a DM who hated tome of magic when i played a cleric of midnight, and could work my magic in wild/dead magic areas.
Thought I was losing my mind. I had to research the novels to make sure I was remembering right.
I had long Orange hair, wore a lot of plaid, and Grunge was the music of the day when I was reading the books...didn't seem like the late 90's was the right time frame.
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The more things change, the more things stay the same.
That was indeed one of my beefs with the whole thing. Just because the assassin and illusionist were no longer going to be 'base classes' in 2nd edition, didn't mean that nobody was ever going to kill-for-hire or cast phantasmal forces. If blacksmiths (Gond) and farmers (Chauntea) and scribes (Deneir) and nobles (Siamorphe), who were never base classes, could have patron dieties, why couldn't people who kill for a living, or people who specialize in illusion magic?
It was wasteful. More marketing-driven than setting-driven, IMO.
More options, cool. Less options, less cool. As GM, I don't have to use every option (Aslan, I mean, Nobanion? No thanks.), but it was nice to have them, if a player really wanted to go there.