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I interpret it as super awesome, pierce any armour or thick hide kick ass!.
Ok, with that said i'll attempt to get off that topic and respond. I would handle it in the same way you would handle HP damage from an arrow or a bolt. For me, thats simply accepting that beyond first level (and even at first level to an extent), heroes with class levels are superhumanly tough. Its not a great stretch to believe that a man who can survive a 200 feet fall and keep fighting can take a bullet in the chest and tough it out.
Theres always a strange mix of applying real world logic to a fantasy game; don't think of bullets hitting humans- because essentially thats a poor comparison, unless we're firing at commoners.
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And how's that different to crossbow bolts and sword stabs? HP are an abstraction, you know.Bullets make it look a lot worse.
Worse than a hit from a Huge +5 Flaming Burst Greatsword wielded by a Fire Giant that hits you for 50hp out of 150hp?
Or not worse?
HPs don't reflect physical health on a simulation basis, because it would be entirely silly if they did.
And how's that different to crossbow bolts and sword stabs? HP are an abstraction, you know.Bullets make it look a lot worse.
Not really. Get shot, but it doesn't hit square - maybe cracks a rib, maybe passes clean through a fleshy part, etc. particularly with black powder weapons - they're not known for their accuracy, and most battlefield deaths from them (if I recall correctly) came from infection or shock rather than the actual bullet damage.
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And how's that different to crossbow bolts and sword stabs? HP are an abstraction, you know.Bullets make it look a lot worse.Worse than a hit from a Huge +5 Flaming Burst Greatsword wielded by a Fire Giant that hits you for 50hp out of 150hp?
Or not worse?
HPs don't reflect physical health on a simulation basis, because it would be entirely silly if they did.
It is easy to imagine someone losing 1/3 of their huge HP total to a melee attack as being a dangerous graze (It does make you wonder why the cleric doesn't have an easier time healing it).
Bullets on the other hand, don't do that a lot. You can sword fight a guy for 10 minutes and if you are good and blocking and hiding, not die. You can't, however, not be shot at while standing in the open for 5 minutes by a guy of equal ability and not be shot full of holes.
Dude. Your'e being hit by a 10m long blade swung by a barn sized giant made of muscle. It's not a graze. If any dose of realism was to be involved, the two pieces of you would be flying across the landscape.
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This really isn't a firearm specific issue- if you can't abstract HP out from massive blows dealt by huge giants that should realistically utterly flatten you, your not going to be able to astract out bullet wounds.
We are not playing WOD: Mortals. Trying to simulate or compare real life wounds with fantasy is absurd.
Not really. Get shot, but it doesn't hit square - maybe cracks a rib, maybe passes clean through a fleshy part, etc. particularly with black powder weapons - they're not known for their accuracy, and most battlefield deaths from them (if I recall correctly) came from infection or shock rather than the actual bullet damage.And how's that different to crossbow bolts and sword stabs? HP are an abstraction, you know.Bullets make it look a lot worse.How inaccurate are they? If that is the excuse for them not dealing damage, than they should have a % chance to hit based on size and range rather than touch AC, sense the path of the bullet is random inside a perimeter.
Uh...inaccurate enough to hit you when you make the touch AC, but not enough to hit the vital part the shooter was aiming at instead of the meaty part of your arm or leg, your love handles, etc.?
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HPs don't reflect physical health on a simulation basis, because it would be entirely silly if they did.hence my issue with the Gunslinger's called shot ability.
And more an echo of 3.5 uneven approach to the simulation/abstraction issue. The system tends to meticulously address some areas in a simulationist manner (climbing rules, anyone?) and gloss over some others with silly abstractions (falling rules, anyone?).
And how's that different to crossbow bolts and sword stabs? HP are an abstraction, you know.Bullets make it look a lot worse.Worse than a hit from a Huge +5 Flaming Burst Greatsword wielded by a Fire Giant that hits you for 50hp out of 150hp?
Or not worse?
HPs don't reflect physical health on a simulation basis, because it would be entirely silly if they did.
It is easy to imagine someone losing 1/3 of their huge HP total to a melee attack as being a dangerous graze (It does make you wonder why the cleric doesn't have an easier time healing it).
Bullets on the other hand, don't do that a lot. You can sword fight a guy for 10 minutes and if you are good and blocking and hiding, not die. You can't, however, not be shot at while standing in the open for 5 minutes by a guy of equal ability and not be shot full of holes.
Depends we are talking current or ball bullets. Revolutionary war had ball bullets.
You can be shot and not die from lose.
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Dude. Your'e being hit by a 10m long blade swung by a barn sized giant made of muscle. It's not a graze. If any dose of realism was to be involved, the two pieces of you would be flying across the landscape.It is definitely a graze. The guy taking the hit in your example doesn't suffer any penalty to movement. He isn't stunned, dazed, or staggered. He can still fall 100' and be ok. Losing 50 of 150 HP basically means the victim isn't hit. That is the only way it makes sense. This interpretation only fails because a low level cleric has such a hard time healing the wound.
On the other hand, stating someone standing in the open, being shot at, and being ok stretches the imagination because against a swing of the sword, the victim has means of defending himself (blocking, ducking, running) however against someone shooting, has no such realistic option. The hits and the damage should be killing him, but they aren't.
The right way to beat someone with a sword, if you have a sword, is to duck and stab back. The right way to beat someone with a gun if you have a sword is hide and hope he runs out of bullets. The right solution is NOT to stand there, sword fighting someone else, while some gunslinger stands behind you, firing away. It is stupid.
No, the way D&D/Pathfinder simulates hit points says that, in either case, the person being "hit" managed to exert themselves and duck out of the way, but did some (relatively) minor damage to themselves while doing so. Strain a muscle, angle their shield/weapon so the hit slid by causing impact bruising rather than penetration damage, etc.
Does that make more or less sense than an 11th+ level Warlock who can Quicken, Empower and Maximize his Eldritch Blast at the same time with no time or level penalties?
Well, maybe we could simply accept that characters stop being 'mundane' creatures after 3rd-4th level and can actually survive being roasted by fireballs, submerged in lava, dropped by 100+ ft. , eviscerated by huge blades, and pierced by bullets and arrows like a swiss cheese.
A 10th level Human Fighter is not a 'human' anymore. He is (should be) more like Hercules of Beowulf. Otherwise, how could he survive a fire breath which can melt iron, being swallowed whole by a Dune-sized worm (and actually cut him from the inside without melting due to gastric juices), or being hit by a club the size of a 3-floor building ?
IMHO, a bullet in the guts should be the last of our problems with these examples in mind.
Just my 2c.
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Well, maybe we could simply accept that characters stop being 'mundane' creatures after 3rd-4th level and can actually survive being roasted by fireballs, submerged in lava, dropped by 100+ ft. , eviscerated by huge blades, and pierced by bullets and arrows like a swiss cheese.
This is how I choose to use/view HP's. Comparing humans to any PC's above first level is simply a poor example.
Well, maybe we could simply accept that characters stop being 'mundane' creatures after 3rd-4th level and can actually survive being roasted by fireballs, submerged in lava, dropped by 100+ ft. , eviscerated by huge blades, and pierced by bullets and arrows like a swiss cheese.
A 10th level Human Fighter is not a 'human' anymore. He is (should be) more like Hercules of Beowulf. Otherwise, how could he survive a fire breath which can melt iron, being swallowed whole by a Dune-sized worm (and actually cut him from the inside without melting due to gastric juices), or being hit by a club the size of a 3-floor building ?
IMHO, a bullet in the guts should be the last of our problems with these examples in mind.
Just my 2c.
+1
It doesn't really matter if it's Swords, Arrows or Bullets.
In the case of melee my group write off lesser damage as nicks and cuts and greater damage is ignored due to heroic effort worthy of Conan.
When it comes to arrows I ignore the visuals entirely, it's bad enough that Boromir staggers around looking like a hedgehog, I don't have to make my players do it - unless of course it's dramatically appropriate ;)
It's basically the same thing with bullets. The more hit points you have, the greater your chances of soaking more bullets than the terminator, but it's not really a pretty sight when you think it over - though it looks crazy awesome on film.
I think we'll stick to our usual use of dramatic license and ignore all the silly realistic points. The only point that matters is this: Would it look good in a movie? Yes? Then fire away Gunslingers!