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I am trying to build a Sniper using the rogue arch-type to knock out a level 4 aristocrat with 32 HP. The rogue will be level 6-7. Using the Sniper arch-type how would one suggest to construct one capable of one hitting the aristocrat in one round? Should I dip in the Assassin PrC or stick with straight rogue?
Assassin death attack only works in melee -- as dumb as that is.
I wanted sniper arcch-type. I want the PCs to be almost clueless to where this mysterious sniper is shooting from. I want them to have the choice of hunting him down which leads to more options blah blah blah.
Death attack is melee only = weaksauce.
Well the sniper archetype from the APG for rogue isn't bad -- and with the sniper goggles from the magic item section of the same book you don't have to worry about range as much.
However house ruling death attack to work at range isn't an insane thing to do if that's what you want.
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I wanted sniper arcch-type. I want the PCs to be almost clueless to where this mysterious sniper is shooting from. I want them to have the choice of hunting him down which leads to more options blah blah blah.
Death attack is melee only = weaksauce.
If you're killing an NPC, it it really important that all the rolls are right? Just have old boy die.
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I would like to know more about the scenario, but I think I understand what you want.
The rogue needs to be able to hit and kill an NPC the PCs are protecting with one shot from a distance of more then 30ft.
I would stick with the Rogue(Sniper) idea. All 6-7 levels in fact.
Race, Human is excellent because of the extra feat. Elf is a great choice because they can use Longbows and the alternate racial trait "Silent Hunter" goes well with the sniper build.
With stats, I would put the highest stat into Dex and the next into Str. Dump stat on this rogue could be either Con or Cha, as he would want to avoid combat and people if he is a sniper.
Skills, I would put Acrobatics, Climb, Perception and Stealth at the top of the list. Its up to you what other skills to use.
Feats:
Deadly Aim, Point-Blank Shot, Far Shot, and Rapid Shot should be high on your list. Precise shot would also be helpful if you have an extra feat.
Note on Far Shot, it works with the Sniper class feature Accuracy. Thus, the worst penalty for range is going to be -5. (-1 per range increment + halve the penalty for range, rounding down = a -1 for every other increment.) If I am wrong, please let me know. Use that to your advantage.
I would give him a compound longbow with his strength rating, and I would make it enchanted. At that level, a +1 or +2 would work just fine. Also have the arrows enchanted so they do energy damage. Have some of each energy, mostly for flavor, but also for practical reasons.
The Sniper Goggles are a must here. I could suggest other items but I think we are getting into over kill if we add too many items.
Now, lets look into what we can do with these suggestions.
Assuming your Dex is 18 and your Str is 15 (for no other reason then those are good round numbers) you are using a +2 Composite Longbow (+2) and Flame and Frost Arrows, as well as wearing the Sniper Goggles, what would a hit look like?
One arrow in stealth would attack at a +11 and deal 1d8+4, 4d6 sneak attack, 1d6 fire damage. That is 23 average damage.
One arrow with Deadly Aim would attack at +9 and deal 1d8+8, 4d6 sneak attack, 1d6 fire damage. That is 27 average damage.
Two arrows with Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot would attack at +7 and deal 1d8+8, 1d8+8, 4d6 Sneak Attack, 1d6 Fire, 1d6 Frost. That is 42 average damage.
Just Rapid Shot would bring attack to +9 and average damage to 34, so maybe Deadly Aim is overkill if you only want to bring the target to 0, but no so if you want to bring them to -10.
Add up to two range increments and subtract 1 from any of those attacks
If the target has 10 AC, and you might want to have it close to that, the hit should be easy.
I would use two different energies for flair mostly. When you describe that two arrows hit the man in the chest, and one is burning the flesh while the other is freezing it, the coolness factor rises a little.
Also, it looks like you can use this to start a chase encounter and with this build the distance the sniper starts from the party can be adjusted to match your needs.
Assassin death attack only works in melee -- as dumb as that is.
I might have missed that particular rule or the thread where it was discussed, but how is the death attack only allowed in combat? From what I read in the PRD, nothing seems to indicate it.
Would using poison be feasible? Poisoned bolts are classic for assassins.
Other thing: HP simulate health to lessen the odds in combat - they don´t actually directly represent health. In my opinion, it would be appropriate to have special rules for asssassionation out of combat.
Assassin death attack only works in melee -- as dumb as that is.I might have missed that particular rule or the thread where it was discussed, but how is the death attack only allowed in combat? From what I read in the PRD, nothing seems to indicate it.
Technically, if we go by just the wording, " ...then makes a sneak attack with a , the Sneak Attack has the additional effect of possibly paralyzing or killing the target...." nothing is stopping the Assassin throwing a Melee Weapon, such as a Dagger, Club, Throwing Axe or Hammer or even a Trident, Spear or similar, so long as it can be described as a primarily melee weapon.
Sudden images of Awesomeness with an Assassin using a Throwing Returning Brilliant Energy Temple-Sword for his Death Attack.
Add a dose of Sassone leaf residue poison (fort DC 16 initial damage 2d12 HP) to the arrow? One "failed" Fort save on the NPC adds 13 damage on average to the attack.
Assassin death attack only works in melee -- as dumb as that is.I might have missed that particular rule or the thread where it was discussed, but how is the death attack only allowed in combat? From what I read in the PRD, nothing seems to indicate it.
If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage...
Please note I didn't say it had to be in combat -- I said it had to be in melee -- ranged combat is combat too after all. The text says the attack must be done by a melee weapon, anything thrown or shot is a ranged weapon and therefore automatically excluded.
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I wanted sniper arcch-type. I want the PCs to be almost clueless to where this mysterious sniper is shooting from. I want them to have the choice of hunting him down which leads to more options blah blah blah.
Death attack is melee only = weaksauce.
Achually Death Attack just must be carried out with a melee weapon. It says nothing about the type of attack. So say technically you could use a dagger or throwing axes as these are "melee weapons".
If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage...Please note I didn't say it had to be in combat -- I said it had to be in melee -- ranged combat is combat too after all. The text says the attack must be done by a melee weapon, anything thrown or shot is a ranged weapon and therefore automatically excluded.
Wow, you're right. I always thought it to be a sneak attack with the additional possibility of killing the victim outright. But if you go by the book, it makes the assassin even suckier.
Last Friday I had a naztharune rakshasa make a death attack with a crossbow from a hidden position. Since he was only 3rd lvl assassin, the Fort DC 15 save was no problem for the 3 fighter guys in the front row. But to think that for a death attack he should've been standing right next to them... makes an assassin unplayable.
Wow, you're right. I always thought it to be a sneak attack with the additional possibility of killing the victim outright. But if you go by the book, it makes the assassin even suckier.
Last Friday I had a naztharune rakshasa make a death attack with a crossbow from a hidden position. Since he was only 3rd lvl assassin, the Fort DC 15 save was no problem for the 3 fighter guys in the front row. But to think that for a death attack he should've been standing right next to them... makes an assassin unplayable.
Yeah I really feel that it should be able to be used with a ranged attack -- as a GM I allow it and tell the players such too (most my players are mature enough I don't mind them playing evil characters) so they are aware.
Assassins don't pop up regularly in my games (think about it -- most of them fail IRL I see no reason they would be more successful in a role playing game) either they are really good or really dead.
How much cash do you have?
Sniper Goggles (APG) are awesome, though they cost 20K. WBL for 7th is 23,500. Might seem like way too much for one item, but what a cool item...
Unlimited Range on Sneaks, and +2 damage/die.
-Uriel
I'm a huge fan of the Sniper Goggles. I think it would be quite reasonable to make a set that was usable for one round per day for 1/5 of the cost(4,000), or any multiple of that.
I'd prefer human, half-elf, or elf.
It's much easier to make this work if you're a halfling. Otherwise the penalties for sniping are pretty steep.
Yeah I really feel that it should be able to be used with a ranged attack -- as a GM I allow it and tell the players such too (most my players are mature enough I don't mind them playing evil characters) so they are aware.
Assassins don't pop up regularly in my games (think about it -- most of them fail IRL I see no reason they would be more successful in a role playing game) either they are really good or really dead.
In our groups (currently two) we have always played it like that.
And in the last 12 months we had 3 assassins - one PC and 2 NPCs. All of them did not fall into the 'really good' category.
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Hey guys, great information! Lets me be more speicific.
The assassin is not truly evil, but then again evil is in the eye of the beholder. The target is a political target. Aristocrat I would say little to no armor I was thinking ac 10. The PCs have been contracted to escort him from his home town to the capital where he will be voting on an act of war (his vote is weighted).
The terrain is from small town to rural area to urban area. I want the assassin to preferably one-shot the target but one full attack works. The assassin is well known so I want them to track him through leads, but if they can track or spot him in the first place more power to them. He will be recieving WBL (level 7). 20 point buy. The prefered race is human, elf or both (half-elf :P ).
I don't like the Idea of flaming arrows just because they would work like tracer rounds and if any of you fellow former military members known tracer rounds work both ways.
20 point buy
human, elf or half-elf
Rogue, Sniper Arch type for a majority of the levels
WBL (level 7)
one shot or one full attack
I want him to be highly unlikey to be spotted.
There is no $$ on the aristocrats head, the PCs will find out he is doing this for personal reasons. So his heart/wealth is 100% behind this task.
I am considering a halfling for a PC Sniper Rogue as well. The Alternate Racial feature of taking -10 instead of -20 on Stealth checks while sniping is pretty good, and combine that with their racial stealth bonuses, size bonuses, and what-not, and you've got a nasty little hidden menace. Mobility might be an issue, but getting effectively a +10 to stealth for just a racial feature seems quite playable.
If I were to do a non-rogue build (and just go with a more expensive route), I would attack them at night with a Half-Orc Zen-Archer Monk with the Deepsight feat. Darkvision 120' is pretty good, and if you're packing the right arrows (say human bane, unholy arrows), it can duplicte the damage of the sneak attack pretty easily. Give him Shot-on-the-run, and its unlikely they'll be able to ever pin down their foe.
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If you're not dead set on the Rogue class itself, a disguised, sleight-of-hand Alchemist Bomb in his pocket would work pretty darn well also.
Add some poison to the outside of the grenade (Sassone Leaf Residue, I'd suggest) and you can do the "Pickpocket Hand Grenade" trick from Fallout 3/New Vegas Linky if you're not familiar with this
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Any magical arrow that gives you extra damage dice would work. I honestly wrote up my post at 1am, so it wasn't as well thought out as it could have been. I realized this morning that fire arrows would have been like tracers.
However, it will be clear what direction he shot from no matter what type of arrow is used. The arrows themselves will be pointing at him after they hit the target, but not his exact location.
I think there is enough information in this thread to put the character together.
Also, I think this was brought up earlier, but if it needs to happen in the story you have the power as a GM to declare that the attack deals enough damage to kill him. I know some consider that cheating, but leaving something important to the story up to chance is just as bad. It is best to create a character that can reasonably do the job and then have him automatically succeed. Just be sure to secretly roll some dice so the players at least think there was a chance of failure.
Here is a fun twist idea.
Have an assassin poison the target before hand, then have some random level 1 guy shoot him with an arrow right as the poison kicks in.
Make it look like he was killed by a sniper, but it was actually poison that did him in.
Want to make a sniper. Make a bard. (1 level dip in assassin for poison use)
BAB 3/4
Lots of Skills
Can use a shortbow (elf = any bow)
Choose spell that help = To many to List !!!!!!
By level 10 you get Greater Invisibility.
By level 1 you get Vanish (invisibility) (1 round/level=5 round max). Which give you a chance to disappear out of sight, to allow yourself to rehide using stealth.
Here's what I would build.
1 round
2 arrows
61 points of damage with 2 hits, followed by 4 bleed and 1d4 con damage per round.
Elf
STR 14, DEX 18, the rest as you please.
Rogue Talents:
- Bleed Attack
- Fast Stealth
- Sniper's Eye
Feats:
- Point Blank Shot
- Rapid Shot
- (as you please)
- (as you please)
Gear:
- Masterwork (or better) Composite Longbow, STR +2
- Cloak of Elven Kind (Stealth +5) (2500)
- 2X +1 Human Bane Arrows (160 each retail, 80 to craft)
- 2X Deathblade (1800/dose retail, 600 to craft)
- 2X Potion of Invisibility (300 each)
Skills:
- Stealth 7 Ranks
- Craft Alchemy 7 Ranks
- Craft Boyer 7 Ranks
- (lots more as you please)
Assassin = Poison. You can skip that, and "risk" poisoning yourself. I put "risk" in quotes because you don't really have to roll, being the GM.
Skills = The idea is that he makes his own bows, arrows, and poisons. You could always change that, I just like the discount and the flavor.
Sneak Attack 4d6
+1 Human Bane Arrow, +3 +2d6
(Average Damage = 6.5 + 14 + 10 = 30.5)
Bleed 4/round
Poison 2 con/round (4 HP worth for a 4th level target, with two hits that's DC 22 for 9 rounds, 2 saves to stop, so you're almost guaranteed a couple rounds of damage)
Average effect, 61 points of damage with 2 hits, followed by 4 bleed and 1d4 con damage per round.
Make sure you hit the target at an opportune time! Get him when some of the party (including him) is asleep, or when he's separated slightly to use the bathroom, etc. A favorite time of mine is in the early morning. The party is all spread out in camp doing various tasks like studying spellbooks, praying, cooking, caring for mounts, etc. That way, while the party is spending a round rushing over to see what's wrong with him, the assassin gets a round to start running!
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just another little bit of damage...it's 3PP, so take it as is Linky
Broadhead arrows from the pfsrd (adventurer's armory, perhaps?) up longbow to 1d10. Gravity Bow that to 2d8, and you're effectively shooting large greatclubs at the target.
I agree with the +1 Elemental / Bane arrow. If he has 2, and the PC's get him before he can fire the 2nd one, it's a fun drop. Not to mention, if the party includes another Primary Target race character you can drop that last shot on him.
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If you're not dead set on the Rogue class itself, a disguised, sleight-of-hand Alchemist Bomb in his pocket would work pretty darn well also.
Add some poison to the outside of the grenade (Sassone Leaf Residue, I'd suggest) and you can do the "Pickpocket Hand Grenade" trick from Fallout 3/New Vegas Linky if you're not familiar with this
Dropping the Bomb into his pocket gave me a very Spy vs. Spy feel. Awesome.
-Uriel