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Maybe I am doing them wrong?
I cast Obscuring mist to grant some protection around the group,
It prevents the enimie from charging at us,
And ranged attacked against me,
And they complain that it blocks there vision.
I cast another fog type spell that gives -4 to str and con around just the group of enemies, and they complain that they cant see them so they can't attack them.
Then they ask me why I didn't cast Magic Missile instead,
Then later they asked why I didn't make Another tank? (currently there is 3 tanks, 2 glass cannons, and me a wizard.)
I don't know what I should do about this...
I think you are doing it fine. i would suggest discussing possible tactics ahead of time with the other players so they know what they are going to do.
What level are you, What spells do you have?
That's how I would play a wizard.
Perhaps you can expound on the benefits of battlefield control for them. Are they aware that with pyrotechnics, the enemy is debuffed for a number of rounds after leaving the cloud? Or perhaps while out of combat you can confer with them how they would prefer you to use your battlefield control. But I certainly wouldn't put up with anyone pressuring me to play *my* character differently.
Have any or your opponents failed to connect with a blow due to miss chance yet? Remind them that part of the fog/ concealment spells is to mitigate damage to everyone. It's why in our groups we roll concealment after the attack hits kinda nice to see a potential crit on a player go bye bye due to obscuring mist. Your group/ GM may work those concealment effects differently of course, and that may make the defensive bonuses you are providing may not be as apparent to the party.
I've played in a "God Hates Fogs" party, too. We had something like seven melee fighters, all of them crappy. My sorcerer's Solid Fog spell just gathered dust on the shelf.
Having played a wizard for two years, and having spent those two years being the only person "thinking like a wizard," I feel your pain. However, I've got some battle hardened advice for you:
- Think about how you're using fog spells. Are you throwing them down on all the enemies on the board, or are you picking select groups to limit the amount of mooks your party has to deal with? Fog spells dropped onto enemy casters & archer types are awesome, but dumping them into melee can be counterproductive.
- Try dropping a glitterdust on your enemies before your party closes in, and then drop the fog spell. Glitterdust will negate the concealment while still keeping your party hidden.
- Fog clouds simply aren't useful in every encounter. Try to consider your allies. If you were a melee character how would you react to the situation without needlessly gimping yourself?
- Magic missile is awful. Thank you for not preparing it. :D
- Grease, Silent Image, and Color Spray are awesomely amazing spells at your level, so try them out! Disarming enemies with Grease will certainly earn you some respect in the party- especially when your allies realize that the enemy starts provoking attacks of opportunity all over the place.
- If your allies ask you why you didn't roll a tank, roll your eyes and summon a tank. Then proceed to blind, grease, and stun your enemies and ask why they didn't roll a wizard. (In jest of course. No need to be catty.)
Hope any of that helps.
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They all are 2nd endition, Casters are ment to be blasters,
Theres a cleric who hits with his d8+3 points of dmg a turn, and uses all of his spells to heal.
They don't understand how when I make the elemental Blind, That makes it so everyone LIVES.
-_-
Atleast once a season one guy asks me to cast Magic missile on them.
"quit doing fogs, do somthing useful'
I tried explaning it, Like
I enlarge fighter, he does extra 1d6 point of dmg a turn for ONE of my standard actions, thats 4d6 at end of fight, one of your standard actions do 1d8+3,
But they don't get it.
Its like they are stuck in the middle ages.
I want to play a control wizard.
EDIT:
We bought 3 wands of Cure Light wounds, and the cleric still insistest useing all of his spells each day to heal.
The other day he used them all up healing, then 'we had to rest' because he was out of spells,
When I only used 1/3rd of my spells for that combat...
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Having played a wizard for two years, and having spent those two years being the only person "thinking like a wizard," I feel your pain. However, I've got some battle hardened advice for you:
- Think about how you're using fog spells. Are you throwing them down on all the enemies on the board, or are you picking select groups to limit the amount of mooks your party has to deal with? Fog spells dropped onto enemy casters & archer types are awesome, but dumping them into melee can be counterproductive.
- Try dropping a glitterdust on your enemies before your party closes in, and then drop the fog spell. Glitterdust will negate the concealment while still keeping your party hidden.
- Fog clouds simply aren't useful in every encounter. Try to consider your allies. If you were a melee character how would you react to the situation without needlessly gimping yourself?
- Magic missile is awful. Thank you for not preparing it. :D
- Grease, Silent Image, and Color Spray are awesomely amazing spells at your level, so try them out! Disarming enemies with Grease will certainly earn you some respect in the party- especially when your allies realize that the enemy starts provoking attacks of opportunity all over the place.
- If your allies ask you why you didn't roll a tank, roll your eyes and summon a tank. Then proceed to blind, grease, and stun your enemies and ask why they didn't roll a wizard. (In jest of course. No need to be catty.)
Hope any of that helps.
Does Gliterdust work in a fog spell?
Also Good point, I just try debuffing all the enemies... I should try divide and conquer more often.They seemed to like the glitter dust on the flying fire elemental tho...
I targeted 5 feet above the elemental so it only targets him..
(i hate it that my dm makes me roll a Int check every time i try targeting somthing that dosnt effect the party.)
They dont seem to get that I prevented a ton of damage because of his misschance. And I made him eazer to hit, and lowered his Initive acount so another player can go before him,
And I reminded the DM each turn to make his Fly check for Hovering, and His balance check for being blind...
They still dont seem to get it...
Its like blasting is only thing they think a wizard is good for.
So here's the rough advice: You might need to find a new gaming group.
Yeah, it sucks, but it looks like these people don't suit your playstyle. It's one thing to simply fail to acknowledge your potential boosts to the group, but it's entirely another to tell you that you're useless and to tell you how to play your character.
Sorry dude, it just doesn't seem like a good fit. If you wanna kick it with these guys you'll either have to accept that they're going to cause conflict or change your character to something they can get their heads around- like an archer. That whole cleric business just boggles my mind.
Did you mention that standing at the edge of the fog you can see out clearly but still get concealment with a 20% miss chance, one of the best places to sit for a bowman
plus you can fog the enemy have your fighters move up and ready ranged attacks as soon as one of them tries to leave the cloud.
(number of people who don't use readied actions astounds me, esp at low levels without iterative attacks)
rogue's can also stealth more easily with concealment from the fog making sneaks alot easier.
stick with controlling you'll find as you get higher levels you'll be winning entire fights and can leave the fighter pelbs to clean up the mess
as mentioned try things like color spray grease glitterdust as well to mix things, being a one trick pony mage is boring.
If you have seven melee types, I don't blame them for being ticked off if you fog all the enemies. Pick out the casters and let them chop up the mooks.
Also, grease would be fun. I don't know about color spray, because you'd have to be in front of the seven melee types for it to be very effective. Glitterdust is also nice.
Always have access to a magic missile, at least in a wand (that does a minimun of two missiles, five is better), just for the incorporeal wraiths and things like that. Sometimes, only a MM works (will o' wisp anyone?) Or force effects, anyway. Sure, hold undead works, but do you really want to waste one of your spell slots on that unless you know you're going up against undead?
As you get higher level, consider the wall spells, cut off some of the bad guys while the fighters chop up the rest. Web lets archers pick off the bad guys without problems.
all the monsters you used that require a magic missle he's not going to see until he's got 2nd if not 3rd level spells
How does the GM feel about the situation? IE is he supportive of thier position if so you may be in trouble. If he understands where you are coming from and understands that you may be doing somethuing that could drastically change his game. At that point TBH dont play controller for an encounter and let the GM roll up on them with charging enemies, ranged attacks, and the like. Then after the likely TPK explain battle field control, and why its useful. Just curious how they are tanks in a game with nothing to make them be the target of attacks?
So here's the rough advice: You might need to find a new gaming group.
Yeah, it sucks, but it looks like these people don't suit your playstyle. It's one thing to simply fail to acknowledge your potential boosts to the group, but it's entirely another to tell you that you're useless and to tell you how to play your character.
Sorry dude, it just doesn't seem like a good fit. If you wanna kick it with these guys you'll either have to accept that they're going to cause conflict or change your character to something they can get their heads around- like an archer. That whole cleric business just boggles my mind.
I disagree, 1st level wiz spells dont really show what a true controller can do, I say persist with the group because once you get some of the highger level controller spells fights will go like this
turn 1
Fighter: I attack
Fighter: I attack
Fighter: I attack
GM: minor damage to 3 monsters
Your Wizard: I cast a AOE control spell
GM: 2/3 of the enemies are now helpless
Wizard: I'll wait over here while you clean up the encounter cheers ;)
I feel your pain. I've been in this exact position. Sadly, some fog spells are centered on you, so placing it around specific enemies (archers, casters) can be tricky and even dicey, at best.
I'd give more advice, but much of what I could say has already been said.
Always have access to a magic missile, at least in a wand (that does a minimun of two missiles, five is better), just for the incorporeal wraiths and things like that. Sometimes, only a MM works (will o' wisp anyone?) Or force effects, anyway. Sure, hold undead works, but do you really want to waste one of your spell slots on that unless you know you're going up against undead?
I once played a witch-themed sorcerer named Hama. Once we ran into a will-o'-wisp that nearly killed the entire 8th-level party. After the party made their knowledge checks to determine the monster's only real weakness, and found out that my sorcerer didn't have magic missile, they made it their mission to "get rid of the useless character." Sadly, the GM agreed with the other players citing "they're just playing their characters appropriately, though we know you've had bad luck with dice rolls and spell selection, in-game everyone sees Hama as dead weight." I dropped out of that campaign due to play style differences (it didn't matter that Hama was the party face and saved the party from disaster multiple times).
Next level I can take augmented summoning
I guess I can just start summing, and useing my lvl 2, and lvl 1 spells for support of that....
Man I really like Stinking Cloud tho...
stinking cloud is awsome ;) it serious can end fights before they begin
The DM understands it completly and is worried all make overpower the game. Everyone else thinks im underpowers...
LOl...
Still hate those Int checks to even target spells tho...
So in a back handed way by making you target to land spells and his fear of what you can do he wants you play like they do. You do understand that right?
So even if the fog disables them like stinking cloud does, if i put it over all the enimies thats bad? because the fighters would have to wait?
position so the enemy are inside the cloud but are on the edge of the stinking cloud that way your fighters can hit them from outside the cloud
you can also use wind spells to disperese clouds as the effects persist after the cloud has gone
by the way there an awsome roleplay opportunity , the fighter charcaters would naturally want a blasty wizard being to stupid to relaise the pwoer of a controller , and you wizard knowing better will teach them whats what over time until the fighters see your power.
school thier charcaters instead of trying to school them ;)
So http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gust-of-wind
Can take out the spell?
What would be a tatical use of the spell besdies taking out the cloud?
Fog Cloud and by extension Stinking cloud
A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the fog in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round.Gust of Wind
This spell creates a severe blast of air (approximately 50 mph)
Tactically options
Stinking cloud Nauseates a bunch of foe's, they stay nauseated for 1d4+1 round after leaving the cloud.
the gust of wind blows away the cloud allowing your fighter to charge in with no risk
also against a bunch of small creatures they're knocked prone and only have a move action to stand up i.e. they can't run away on thier turn
against medium creature with the right positioning with walls etc they'll struggle to make a DC15 STR check and even if they do they've only got a move action to escape, and are easily run down by fighter with full round actions.
plus its a great spell for dealing with swarms
Hmm So i think best choice is just to have the fighters wait and ready acctions.
just explain that they won't get any fewer attacks in doing so and will end up with softer targets to kill ;)
ask them why they did not buy the alchemist fire and fire bombs.... they could of been tossing them in the cloud burning the whatever into the col's recipe instead of griping about waiting
The important thing to remember is that this is everybody's game. As much as they aren't playing to suit your playstyle, so are you playing in a way that doesn't suit their playstyle. You have every right to play your character the way you want to, but don't hinder other players.
It's rough, because many times a decision to do X is mechanically advantageous to the whole party but leaves certain characters in the dugout and not everyone is cool with playing second fiddle. In our group we have to remind each other that we're all on the same team, but it can still be annoying to sit out every once in a while.
Just something to keep in mind.
If you have seven melee types, I don't blame them for being ticked off if you fog all the enemies.
Oh, I agree. It was still a bit disappointing, though.
Pick out the casters and let them chop up the mooks.
Our DM wasn't big on casters. Typical enemies would be more like a horde of trolls or giants.