Having some minor issues as a PC in a campaign and thought I'd seek some advice from the boards. I'm in a 6th, almost 7th level campaign playing a Human Witch.
The campaign significantly features Dark Creepers, Dark Stalkers, and now the new Dark Slayer (I think) from the Bestiary II.
I'm starting to become a bit frustrated with the witch class in this campaign. The last few sessions, between passed saves (luck can't be helped), immunities, and deeper darkness, I've been fairly useless. This previous session I actually spent a majority of the time in a portable hole trying to be less of a liability.
I've been using Heroism and Lightning Bolt both 1/day, with my third 3rd level spell being Fly. I have the Fortune hex, but combats in the last couple sessions have been fairly mobile or spread out. So its hard to keep it up on my allies, and on top of that, after one combat I've fortuned everyone the one time limit.
From my understanding, deeper darkness blocks line of sight, which means no targeting spells (or hexes) into it. The groups Druid and Inquisitor have been using Scent effectively, and the Arcane Trickster still does decent melee damage and sneak attacks when he is able.
My other hexes are Sleep, Misfortune, Cauldron (Which I regret taking), Fortune, and Cackle.
TL;DR: Witch with deeper darkness problems, suggestions?
what level is your group? your Druid can drop daylight spells. you could also use heighten and use light or flaming sphere.
the witch is a fun class though it's unfortunate it is working poorly in the campaign environment.
The campaign is 6th, almost 7th level.
The Dark (Creeper, stalker, slayer)s all get Deeper Darkness at-will. Which means simply getting access to the appropriate counter isn't sufficient. I'd thought I'd wait out that section of the campaign, but it appears that they will be present through out.
Oh, my character has about 10,000gp in available wealth, and about 12,000gp in equipment.
1) Have this same conversation with your GM. If you already have, please tell us what the GM said so that we can get a better feel for your situation.
2) Summon Monster! Almost everything you can summon has darkvision 60', including all fiendish and celestial critters.
Unfortunately Deeper Darkness blocks Darkvision as well. I've talked to my GM, and the result of that conversation was basically I could swap to another character if I wanted to, but he isn't likely to alter the campaign or stop using the Deeper Darkness abilities any time soon.
I personally prefer not to switch characters. I feel it disrupts the flow of the campaign, and I've some story items and recently started construction on a Tower to call home.
If your familiar has scent, you could use this spell:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/shareSenses.html#share-s enses
You could also summon creatures that can function in darkness. Dire bats have blindsense for example.
You can also try spells like stinking cloud, or summon swarm to force the dark stalkers out, then whack them with the slumber hex, or a hold person.
Part of being a witch is using your abilities to debuff monsters, buff party members, and control the battlefield, but you should be able to take things out now and again.
More info about your character please...
What is your familiar and patron?
What are your ability scores?
Are mobility and seeing in deeper darkness your main problems?
EDIT: When you are level 7, you will be able to summon hound archons that will rough up dark stalkers fairly well...
Deeper Darkness only blocks darkvision if the starting illumination is dim light or lower, and being the same effect, they shouldn't stack with each other.
What is your Patron?
Fight fire with fire, if your allies are already using scent to locate them, use obscuring mist to hinder the dark-creatures.
The various swarm spells could help as well, provided you can make sure not to hit your allies to often.
Any more Info you can provide will help.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Fergie
Summon Lemures -- they can see in darkness of all types, and have DR to boot. You have access to several area of effect spells that are cone shaped -- use them. stinking cloud, vomit swarm, web, glitterdust, and sleep -- even burning hands all affect an area which makes them nice choices. Scare will work on anything with less than 6 hit dice -- which is most the dark list as well. Deep slumber will catch some, while sleet storm will make the area just as much a problem for them as it is for you.
Fourth level spells of interest can include: crushing despair, confusion, fear, ice storm, and solid fog.
Any devil will be a decent (or better) summoning choice since they can see in darkness too.
Dark slayers and dark creepers have darkness -- not deeper darkness and you might want to double check the lighting rules -- I've found since they've change some people still aren't using them correctly.
Finally killing a dark "x" will automatically blind other dark "x" creatures near it -- so make sure you take advantage of that!
I would recommend improved familiar for a pseudo-dragon, they have blind sense and could help you aim (with telepathy so there is no noise to help them find you by).
Deeper Darkness only blocks darkvision if the starting illumination is dim light or lower, and being the same effect, they shouldn't stack with each other.
What is your Patron?
Fight fire with fire, if your allies are already using scent to locate them, use obscuring mist to hinder the dark-creatures.
The various swarm spells could help as well, provided you can make sure not to hit your allies to often.
Any more Info you can provide will help.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Fergie
I actually didn't know that part of Deeper Darkness. Though I can't find any static way to raise the light level more than one step. Torches, Sunrods, Light, and Lanterns would just create Dim Light, which would still become Supernatural Darkness.
The share senses thing I'll have to look into. I can summon, sure, but if this is going to be a constant problem in the campaign, I think a summoner would simply be a better character choice.
I feel I can deal with mobility issues, but its the constant areas of darkness that I think is really causing me issues. They prevent me from using pretty much any hex, and most spells.
Edit: I'm learning more and more about the lighting rules as we go. I didn't know about the Dark X death thing, and do not believe the DM has been doing that.
Most of the good familiars are out given my TN alignment. I wasn't aware of the restrictions at the time of character creation.
Gem of Brightness would only bump lighting from dark to dim, which would drop back to supernatural.
And I guess it has mostly been Dark Stalkers, given the black blots we keep running into are Deeper.
My Character:
Human Witch
TN
Str 9
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 23
Wis 9
Cha 11
(Dex and Int are +2 from a story item.)
Skills: (All max ranks)
Acrobatics
Craft: Alch
Fly
Perception
Sleight of Hand
Spellcraft
Stealth
Swim
Feats:
Extra Hex
Extra Hex
Bouncing Spell
and one unselected.
Gear:
Clothing +2
Boots of Elven Kind
Rod of Lesser Empower
~10k GP unspent.
I also have a Wraith that is "neutered". No con drain, but gained Fly By attack. I keep it commanded with Command Undead, and it is basically 1d6 damage and something to stand in front of me. The Druids animal companion is a big fan. ;)
Spells:
1st: All
2nd: Cure, Inflict, Feast of Ashes, Pox Pustules, Command Undead, Vomit Swarm.
3rd: Contagion, Fly, Heroism, Lightning Bolt, and Ray of Exhaustion.
Having some minor issues as a PC in a campaign and thought I'd seek some advice from the boards. I'm in a 6th, almost 7th level campaign playing a Human Witch.
The campaign significantly features Dark Creepers, Dark Stalkers, and now the new Dark Slayer (I think) from the Bestiary II.
I'm starting to become a bit frustrated with the witch class in this campaign. The last few sessions, between passed saves (luck can't be helped), immunities, and deeper darkness, I've been fairly useless. This previous session I actually spent a majority of the time in a portable hole trying to be less of a liability.
I've been using Heroism and Lightning Bolt both 1/day, with my third 3rd level spell being Fly. I have the Fortune hex, but combats in the last couple sessions have been fairly mobile or spread out. So its hard to keep it up on my allies, and on top of that, after one combat I've fortuned everyone the one time limit.
From my understanding, deeper darkness blocks line of sight, which means no targeting spells (or hexes) into it. The groups Druid and Inquisitor have been using Scent effectively, and the Arcane Trickster still does decent melee damage and sneak attacks when he is able.
My other hexes are Sleep, Misfortune, Cauldron (Which I regret taking), Fortune, and Cackle.
TL;DR: Witch with deeper darkness problems, suggestions?
What patron did you choose, and dispel magic should counter the darkness ability if it is an SLA?
Torches, sunrods, and light spells create normal light in there area, and increase the light levels by one step beyond that.
Consider (eventually) picking up the healing Hex, and, along with cure spells, become a battle field healer.
Unfortunately this is untrue. As per the PRD: " A lamp illuminates a small area, providing normal light in a 15-foot radius and increasing the light level by one step for an additional 15 feet beyond that area (darkness becomes dim light and dim light becomes normal light). "
Other light sources all use the same or similar language. I guess I could just wander around healing people. Or swap to mostly summon spells. Not solutions I prefer, but they are solutions.
Share Senses at best could grant me Scent I guess. However Scent only reveals the occupied square within 5ft (I believe). Is that sufficient to target? Do I have Line of Sight to a target in that square? I didn't think that was sufficient.
Having some minor issues as a PC in a campaign and thought I'd seek some advice from the boards. I'm in a 6th, almost 7th level campaign playing a Human Witch.
The campaign significantly features Dark Creepers, Dark Stalkers, and now the new Dark Slayer (I think) from the Bestiary II.
I'm starting to become a bit frustrated with the witch class in this campaign. The last few sessions, between passed saves (luck can't be helped), immunities, and deeper darkness, I've been fairly useless. This previous session I actually spent a majority of the time in a portable hole trying to be less of a liability.
I've been using Heroism and Lightning Bolt both 1/day, with my third 3rd level spell being Fly. I have the Fortune hex, but combats in the last couple sessions have been fairly mobile or spread out. So its hard to keep it up on my allies, and on top of that, after one combat I've fortuned everyone the one time limit.
From my understanding, deeper darkness blocks line of sight, which means no targeting spells (or hexes) into it. The groups Druid and Inquisitor have been using Scent effectively, and the Arcane Trickster still does decent melee damage and sneak attacks when he is able.
My other hexes are Sleep, Misfortune, Cauldron (Which I regret taking), Fortune, and Cackle.
TL;DR: Witch with deeper darkness problems, suggestions?
What patron did you choose, and dispel magic should counter the darkness ability if it is an SLA?
Plague Patron. My character is Spoilered a few posts up. Dispel Magic would remove the effect, but I'd be limited to 3 of them all day, while the Dark Stalkers have Deeper at will. These monsters are a prominent villain race in this campaign. So the issue with the Deeper Darkness isn't something that I can just avoid for a while, as I might had hoped.
Lantern archons can cast continual flame which counters deeper darkness (continual flame is a level 3 clerical spell).
Also a torch is normal light -- not dim light. As such it will only be dropped down to regular darkness -- not supernatural darkness -- as such the darkvision spell will see just fine with it (same with a light spell as per the light rules on pages 172~173) even in deeper darkness.
The darkness spells do not automatically counter light spells -- you have to specifically counter a light spell when it is cast, otherwise you have to dispel it (with dispel magic).
A hand of glory would be a good buy -- it allows you to use see invisibility and daylight each once per day and wear an additional ring to boot.
Normal light functions just like bright light, but characters with light sensitivity and light blindness do not take penalties. Areas of normal light include underneath a forest canopy during the day, within 20 feet of a torch, and inside the area of a light spell.
Lantern archons can cast continual flame which counters deeper darkness (continual flame is a level 3 clerical spell).
Also a torch is normal light -- not dim light. As such it will only be dropped down to regular darkness -- not supernatural darkness -- as such the darkvision spell will see just fine with it (same with a light spell as per the light rules on pages 172~173) even in deeper darkness.
The darkness spells do not automatically counter light spells -- you have to specifically counter a light spell when it is cast, otherwise you have to dispel it (with dispel magic).
A hand of glory would be a good buy -- it allows you to use see invisibility and daylight each once per day and wear an additional ring to boot.
I'd agree with you except for the language at the end of the lantern (and torch, etc) that specifically spells out that Darkness (which is the default in an unlit area) is bumped up one category to Dim Light.
I didn't realize that Continual Flame can be used to counter Deeper. So, in one level I can summon a Hound Archon, but then have it ready actions to counter Deeper Darknesses constantly? Awkward, but in a way that works I guess.
Edit: Then the rules contradict themselves? From the Torch in the PRD " (darkness becomes dim light and dim light becomes normal light)."
after all torches are regularly used to light places up and that's not dim light in those places!
Well, that is good to know. I'll have to check with the DM though, to see which ruling he prefers. If he goes with your reference, then simply having Darkvision would be sufficient to see through the Deeper Darkness assuming another light source correct?
A torch burns for 1 hour, shedding normal light in a 20-foot radius and increasing the light level by one step for an additional 20 feet beyond that area (darkness becomes dim light and dim light becomes normal light). A torch does not increase the light level in normal light or bright light. If a torch is used in combat, treat it as a one-handed improvised weapon that deals bludgeoning damage equal to that of a gauntlet of its size, plus 1 point of fire damage.
As Kierato points out (thanks by the way) the torch gives normal light within 20 foot, and increases the light beyond that by one grade for another 20 feet. So with a torch you have normal light, and then dim light before returning to darkness -- deeper darkness would give you 20 feet of darkness before you hit supernatural darkness.
A widen light spell might be your friend to ironically, since it will shed "normal" light for 40 feet and dim for 40 feet beyond that (giving you 40 feet of regular darkness instead of just 20).
If each character carries a torch or light spell you should be fine with everyone having darkvision.
I forgot to ask what immunities have been bothering you?
What do you envision your character doing in combat, assuming the darkness was not an issue. Is it damage, buffs, debuffs, etc?
Missed this post, sorry. Immunities actually arn't too much of an issue, I probably shouldn't have mentioned that in the post. Earlier in the campaign I had some issues with Sleeps HD cap (the spell). I didn't take the Slumber hex till a bit later in.
We fought some undead and constructs as well, which were also a bit irritating, but I was still able to participate.
I'd like to mostly debuff, and occasionally buff with this character I guess. Had I wanted to do direct damage, I would have chosen something else. Doesn't seem all that witch-like to me. =)
As Kierato points out (thanks by the way) the torch gives normal light within 20 foot, and increases the light beyond that by one grade for another 20 feet. So with a torch you have normal light, and then dim light before returning to darkness -- deeper darkness would give you 20 feet of darkness before you hit supernatural darkness.
A widen light spell might be your friend to ironically, since it will shed "normal" light for 40 feet and dim for 40 feet beyond that (giving you 40 feet of regular darkness instead of just 20).
If each character carries a torch or light spell you should be fine with everyone having darkvision.
Well, combine that with Alter Self to give myself Darkvision, and a Dancing Lantern spell, I think that pretty much solves my issue.
Thanks for the help everyone.
Edit: Actually, "Nonmagical sources of light, such as torches and lanterns, do not increase the light level in an area of darkness. Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness." seems to make this not work, unless I use a 4th level Light Spell.
Unless my understanding of the rules is wrong if you simply have an active daylight (3rd lvl) deeper darkness just cancels it out and they return the lighting to normal. Both are still active so they are both still there. At your lvl daylight should last an hour per casting.
Once you hit 7th level, use your feat to pick up Heighten Spell, heighten dancing lantern up to 4th level, and then use a scroll of permanency on it (you'll want to have someone UMD it, or if your Arcane Trickster has any Wizard or Sorcerer in him, he can make a caster level check to use it, DC 10 if I recall correctly).
Presto, a permanent light source that works in deeper darkness.
If a scroll of permanency is not available, you may be stuck blowing a 4th level spell each day to cast dancing lantern :D
Once you hit 7th level, use your feat to pick up Heighten Spell, heighten dancing lantern up to 4th level, and then use a scroll of permanency on it (you'll want to have someone UMD it, or if your Arcane Trickster has any Wizard or Sorcerer in him, he can make a caster level check to use it, DC 10 if I recall correctly).
Presto, a permanent light source that works in deeper darkness.
If a scroll of permanency is not available, you may be stuck blowing a 4th level spell each day to cast dancing lantern :D
+1,
And u can cover it when u want to be sneaky sneaky.
Once you hit 7th level, use your feat to pick up Heighten Spell, heighten dancing lantern up to 4th level, and then use a scroll of permanency on it (you'll want to have someone UMD it, or if your Arcane Trickster has any Wizard or Sorcerer in him, he can make a caster level check to use it, DC 10 if I recall correctly).
Presto, a permanent light source that works in deeper darkness.
If a scroll of permanency is not available, you may be stuck blowing a 4th level spell each day to cast dancing lantern :D
Glad we could help you. As an extra thing -- I would point your GM to this thread. A GM shouldn't cater to a player's every whim, but if this is causing you enough problems to have rendered the game a source of unhappiness for you then he might need to rethink his position just a little bit and perhaps back off a little bit.
I don't want us causing a "tit for tat" GM vs Player thing, but at the same time you have a legitimate want to be able to contribute, and do need a way to do so -- which is all we are trying to offer.
As such seeing this thread might help your GM realize you aren't trying to render his choices powerless -- but to simply have your fun as well and contribute meaningfully.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
