Magic and blind casters-2 questions

[wraithstrike]

Do the spell rules such as sensing when someone failed a save generally apply to supernatural affects also?
Can a blind cleric still use selective channel or can a someone with the feat selective spell still choose which ally gets to not be affected by a spell?

I already rule that SU's and spells follow the same logic in my games, but it is something that will come up so I am asking it now.

[TwilightKnight]

In the case of exempting someone from an effect like Channeling, applying the Line of Sight/Effect rules, I would say they cannot do it. YMMV

[LazarX]

You generally don't "sense" a failed (or succeeded) save unless it's a spell that gives you a mental conduit. Most, like charm person, do not. You can perceive the effects of a failed save by observation.

Blind casters are generally Sol. As far as selective channeling goes they'd need to make perception checks in order to target those they wish to include, just like the problem of casting spells on invisible people.

In fact that's the general rule for targeting... treat everyone in the world as invisible to a blind man and adjudicate DC's based on that.

[wraithstrike]

LazarX wrote:

You generally don't "sense" a failed (or succeeded) save unless it's a spell that gives you a mental conduit. Most, like charm person, do not. You can perceive the effects of a failed save by observation.

Blind casters are generally Sol. As far as selective channeling goes they'd need to make perception checks in order to target those they wish to include, just like the problem of casting spells on invisible people.

In fact that's the general rule for targeting... treat everyone in the world as invisible to a blind man and adjudicate DC's based on that.

PRD:

Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

The issue is that this is directly under spells when it should, IMHO, be a general magic rule. I think it is RAI, but by RAW this only works with spells.

[Mauril]

I'm actually playing a blind caster right now, and this is a common problem for him. After having a lot of trouble (in-character) with his spells not working right, he found a way to get blind-sight. Now he just doesn't cast spells further away than 60 feet. Outside of that, he uses his raven companion as an artillery targeter and we use the rules for splash weapons when determining if he hit the right square with area spells. That's not RAW, but it seems to work well for us.

[TwilightKnight]

Mauril wrote:

That's not RAW, but it seems to work well for us.

Nice! I like this interpretation.

[Elven_Blades]

Not 100% sure what your asking on the first part of you question, though you seem to answer it in you second post. From what i read, the caster of a spell can't tell, in any way, if the target of the spell was affected, except for physical damage spells and maybe things like charm/dominate and a few others. Only the targeted/affected creatures will sence anything on non-obvious spells.

On the second question, i would say that unless you have a way of pinpointing a creature (blindsight, tremor sense, etc) you can not selectively target/un-target specific creatures in effects such selective channel and the like.

[Abraham spalding]

rules wrote:

PRD:
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

So you'll know if slow fails, but not crushing despair. Baleful polymorph but not stinking cloud, etc.