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So what if before activating slow time you
a) take a full attack action.
b) use a standard action to activate a spell like ability.
I believe these two statements are in contradiction. You can't use the full attack action (a full-round action) and a standard action in the same round.
By wording of the ability, you have to activate the ability, then you get three standard actions. No more. That also does not mean three full-round actions. You could get off multiple vital strikes or maneuvers, but only a total of three. If you use one standard action in the round before you use the ability, I would rule that it counts as one of your three for the round.
I would say that if you do a) or b), then you cannot active Slow Time. Activating slow time changes your available actions from (full round action) or (standard action and move action) to (3 standard actions that are not SLA). In either case, your actions this round would not fit into the available actions, so you cannot do it.
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Just to have the wording here in the thread:
From the PRD:
Slow Time (Su): At 12th level, a monk of the four winds can use his ki to slow time or quicken his movements, depending on the observer. As a swift action, the monk can expend 6 ki points to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one. The monk can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. The monk cannot use these actions to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions. Any move actions the monk makes this turn do not provoke attacks of opportunity. This ability replaces abundant step.
Also Action types:
Action Types
An action's type essentially tells you how long the action takes to perform (within the framework of the 6-second combat round) and how movement is treated. There are six types of actions: standard actions, move actions, full-round actions, swift actions, immediate actions, and free actions.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.
In some situations (such as in a surprise round), you may be limited to taking only a single move action or standard action.
Standard Action: A standard action allows you to do something, most commonly to make an attack or cast a spell. See Table: Actions in Combat for other standard actions.
Move Action: A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Actions in Combat for other move actions.
You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.
Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions and swift actions (see below). See Table: Actions in Combat for a list of full-round actions.
Some full-round actions do not allow you to take a 5-foot step.
Some full-round actions can be taken as standard actions, but only in situations when you are limited to performing only a standard action during your round. The descriptions of specific actions detail which actions allow this option.
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
Not an Action: Some activities are so minor that they are not even considered free actions. They literally don't take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else, such as nocking an arrow as part of an attack with a bow.
Restricted Activity: In some situations, you may be unable to take a full round's worth of actions. In such cases, you are restricted to taking only a single standard action or a single move action (plus free and swift actions as normal). You can't take a full-round action (though you can start or complete a full-round action by using a standard action; see below).
Per RAW, you get 1 swift action per round, no matter what else you do, it breaks down like this:
1) Full round + swift
2) Standard + Move + swift
3) Move + Move + swift
so, taking the RAW, unless it get an errata, you could replace the swift actions in any of the above items with 3 standard actions. So that it would look like this:
1) Full round + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
2) Standard + move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
3) Move + Move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
Considering that you are blowing through 6 Ki points to do this (which at the level you get it you have 6+Wis mod points) It should be powerful. You just blew more than 1/2 your Ki points for the day in 1 round of combat. Remember you are limited on what you can do there to take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action.
so, taking the RAW, unless it get an errata, you could replace the swift actions in any of the above items with 3 standard actions. So that it would look like this:1) Full round + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
2) Standard + move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
3) Move + Move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
I believe this is incorrect, as the text specifies "... to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one" (my bolding).
It does not grant you additional actions, but substitutes the one standard action you have, into three special standard actions (special since they are restricted to certain actions).
So when using Slow Time your actions becomes:
1) Move + 3xStandard (with restrictions)
Therefore you cannot use the ability, if your standard action is spent, as you do not have it to substitute for the bonus actions.
I don't think this is making it a bad ability for it's level. Personally I'd choose it over abundant step most days.
Apart from using it with combat maneuvers and vital strike, I just noticed that it can be used efficiently to escape grappling (or gain control) if you have a decent escape artist skill. Using it, you can gain three attempts to escape, or actions to attack your graplee a few times.
I'm assuming a conservative reading of Slow Time where your entire round consists of move, standard (or move), standard (or move), standard (or move), in any order you want.
Attack(s), Move(s), Attack(s)
The most obvious use would be to attack, move, and attack again. If you finish off an opponent with a standard attack, you could activate Slow Time and go engage another.
That might be particularly useful with Stunning Fist or some other attack maneuver that temporarily disables or slows an enemy, preparing multiple foes to be engaged by your teammates.
Attack, Attack, Attack, (Move)
For simply dealing damage, you're probably better off using 1 ki point and using a flurry.
I think my favorite use would be: Move, Grapple, Pin, Tie up. Not only is a decent way to eliminate an enemy in normal combat, but it would be an awesome surprise move in an otherwise non-combat situation.
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so, taking the RAW, unless it get an errata, you could replace the swift actions in any of the above items with 3 standard actions. So that it would look like this:1) Full round + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
2) Standard + move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
3) Move + Move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
I believe this is incorrect, as the text specifies "... to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one" (my bolding).
It does not grant you additional actions, but substitutes the one standard action you have, into three special standard actions (special since they are restricted to certain actions).
So when using Slow Time your actions becomes:
1) Move + 3xStandard (with restrictions)
Therefore you cannot use the ability, if your standard action is spent, as you do not have it to substitute for the bonus actions.
I don't think this is making it a bad ability for it's level. Personally I'd choose it over abundant step most days.
Apart from using it with combat maneuvers and vital strike, I just noticed that it can be used efficiently to escape grappling (or gain control) if you have a decent escape artist skill. Using it, you can gain three attempts to escape, or actions to attack your graplee a few times.
I did say that if they did not intend it to stack with a full round action, that it should get an errata. Since as it is written (maybe not intended) you can use a 1 swift action before or after a full round action with no problems (otherwise a paladin would not be able to do a self lay-on-hands on the same round as a full attack), and thus do a full round action like a Flurry, and then activate slow time and get 3 more standard actions for that turn.
Happler wrote:
so, taking the RAW, unless it get an errata, you could replace the swift actions in any of the above items with 3 standard actions. So that it would look like this:
1) Full round + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
2) Standard + move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)
3) Move + Move + slow time (standard + standard + standard)I believe this is incorrect, as the text specifies "... to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one" (my bolding).
It does not grant you additional actions, but substitutes the one standard action you have, into three special standard actions (special since they are restricted to certain actions).
So when using Slow Time your actions becomes:
1) Move + 3xStandard (with restrictions)
Therefore you cannot use the ability, if your standard action is spent, as you do not have it to substitute for the bonus actions.
I don't think this is making it a bad ability for it's level. Personally I'd choose it over abundant step most days.
Apart from using it with combat maneuvers and vital strike, I just noticed that it can be used efficiently to escape grappling (or gain control) if you have a decent escape artist skill. Using it, you can gain three attempts to escape, or actions to attack your graplee a few times.
+1 I believe this is right.
Also, A Paladin could use lay on hands on himself during a full attack action, between the attacks, not just before or after.
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Going by the conservative reading, there is also nothing stopping you from using it during a surprise round. Instead of 1 standard action, you could have 3 standard actions.
Well...technically, you can't take a swift action during a surprise round, so you can't activate the ability. You're limited to taking a single Move or Standard Action, and Free Actions.
"A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn." (Pathfinder Core Rulebook p.182)
While you can perform free actions during a surprise round, a swift action is not the same thing as a free action.
So that would preclude it's use during a surprise round.
Unless, someone has errata/ruled that a single swift action could also be taken during a surprise round, and I missed that...
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How can you take a three standard actions instead of a single standard action when you don't have a standard action?
If you see the following on a menu
"You can have salad instead of french fries with your burger"
You won't find people ordering a burger, eating the fries then asking for their salad...
Yeah, it's poor wording but it's not THAT poorly of worded where you don't understand what they meant.
"You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action." Second to last sentence in that paragraph.
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"You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action." Second to last sentence in that paragraph.
Ah, I see it. Thanks. It isn't in the same paragraph, though. Your quote is on p.188 under swift actions.
But, it would seem to indicate that you could use the ability during a surprise round to get three standard actions.
I thought you were quoting page 188 as well, that sentence is there too (first sentence), but whatever.
I like the idea of 3 Vital strikes.
You could release 3 dancing items on the same round!
Play a gestalt cleric and go crazy. :D
I am afraid neither cleaves, nor grapple+pin+tie up, or releasing dancing swords, are all no go with slow time. They require certain standard actions, and are not attack actions, skills, or move actions.
This is unclear from the wording though, and require some clarification/errata. It is problematic that there is both a list of what you can do, and what you cannot do. When judging which standard actions are allowed, it creates uncertainty on which list is to be followed.
I am afraid neither cleaves, nor grapple+pin+tie up, or releasing dancing swords, are all no go with slow time. They require certain standard actions, and are not attack actions, skills, or move actions.
This is unclear from the wording though, and require some clarification/errata. It is problematic that there is both a list of what you can do, and what you cannot do. When judging which standard actions are allowed, it creates uncertainty on which list is to be followed.
Combat maneuvers are attack actions, so grapple would definitely be allowed. Pin & tie up are a little less clear, but the way I read the grappling rules, each is a use of the grapple action than can only be used on an opponent under special circumstances (that they have the grappled or pinned conditions respectively).
Combat maneuvers are attack actions, so grapple would definitely be allowed. Pin & tie up are a little less clear, but the way I read the grappling rules, each is a use of the grapple action than can only be used on an opponent under special circumstances (that they have the grappled or pinned conditions respectively).I am afraid neither cleaves, nor grapple+pin+tie up, or releasing dancing swords, are all no go with slow time. They require certain standard actions, and are not attack actions, skills, or move actions.
This is unclear from the wording though, and require some clarification/errata. It is problematic that there is both a list of what you can do, and what you cannot do. When judging which standard actions are allowed, it creates uncertainty on which list is to be followed.
I agree. Since Maneuver = Attack and Grapple = Maneuver, the monk should be at least able to move, grapple, pin and tie.
I double checked, grapple is not an attack action, it is a standard action. Trip, disarm, and maybe a couple of others are specified as being attack actions.