How do you handle fly in combat?

[Question]

For one most flying creatures have fly modifiers good enough that they auto pass most fly checks unless they roll a 1. A mid level wizard will probably achieve the same effect easily. From what im reading, you have to make a fly check every time you move at less than half of your max speed or hover in place, as well as any changes in altitude.

Doesnt this, by RAW, result in a LOT of rolling every round? Rolls that can only fail on 1 even? It just seems...un-necessary. And very inconveniencing to the DM/players. Rolls to withstand being blown away by some strong wind, with a substantial DC, yea...but when Elminster is flying and can only fail the DC15 hover check on a 1 in combat...do you really want to roll every round for him, and everyone else flying for that 5% chance?

[Rellen]

A natural one does not automatically fail on a skill check, nor does nat 20 auto succeed. So if you have a Fly modifier of +14 or greater there should be no need to roll hover checks.

[LazarX]

It gets more interesting when you have contested fly rolls between fliers.

Can you outmaneeuver that wyvernne who's chasing you on your pegasus?

[Question]

Rellen wrote:

A natural one does not automatically fail on a skill check, nor does nat 20 auto succeed. So if you have a Fly modifier of +14 or greater there should be no need to roll hover checks.

Thanks for the reminder. So a +15 fly would be sufficient to hover in place all the time. That solves it, thanks.

[Cartigan]

Don't use the Pathfinder fly rules. Or use them only to augment the flying rules from 3.5. Problem solved.

[Morgen]

It actually doesn't come out to too much more rolling in a round since you really only need to focus what your trying to do if it's out of the ordinary or your a winged creature that takes damage. Change in altitude is only for when your trying to ascend at over a 45 degree angle.

Honestly it's so better then the old 3.5 rules to actually use we've found through actual play. You just need to get through your head that the Fly spell doesn't grand you super perfect ultra movement and your fine.

[Rellen]

I'm with Morgen the PF Fly rules are a huge improvement over the unholy mess that was 3.5 flight.

[Caineach]

Overall, I like the new fly rules, but I have been a little disappointed with them. I think if the DCs were 5 higher accross the board I would like it more, and have the damage taken DC scale with damage instead of being 10.

[Cartigan]

Rellen wrote:

I'm with Morgen the PF Fly rules are a huge improvement over the unholy mess that was 3.5 flight.

I don't remotely understand how anyone can say this. Not for the least reason that 3.5 was a fixed table unlike the ridiculous mess of bonuses and penalties PLUS DCs PLUS special rules that Fly in PF consists of.

[azhrei_fje]

Cartigan wrote:

I don't remotely understand how anyone can say this. Not for the least reason that 3.5 was a fixed table unlike the ridiculous mess of bonuses and penalties PLUS DCs PLUS special rules that Fly in PF consists of.

In general I like the PF rules better.

The fixed table is a problem as it makes it difficult to account for odd stuff that happens in every campaign (weird racial flying traits, or unusual magic effects, or whatever). Having a base set of DCs for common stuff and then modifiers allows more flexibility, IMO.

The only gripe I have concerns both systems: neither seems to take wingspan into account when calculating flying DCs. A pegasus (as mentioned earlier) has a wingspan of 20 feet. How does that interact in areas where the width available is exactly 20 feet? Or perhaps 15 feet? Or 10 feet? And a creature with such a massive wingspan is going to require vertical room as well (about 80% of 20 feet upward and almost 100% of 20 feet downward).

But as always... There's a GM in this game for a reason. :-)

[Oliver McShade]

HOW DO YOU HANDLE FLY IN COMBAT?

FLY SWATTER !

[Zotpox]

In 3D

[ZappoHisbane]

Question wrote:

Rellen wrote:

A natural one does not automatically fail on a skill check, nor does nat 20 auto succeed. So if you have a Fly modifier of +14 or greater there should be no need to roll hover checks.

Thanks for the reminder. So a +15 fly would be sufficient to hover in place all the time. That solves it, thanks.

Actually, like Rellen said a +14 is all you need since a 1 isn't an auto-fail and 1+14=15. Assuming there aren't any adverse conditions (wind, winged creatures hit during combat, etc) of course.

[King of Vrock]

ZappoHisbane wrote:

Question wrote:

Rellen wrote:

A natural one does not automatically fail on a skill check, nor does nat 20 auto succeed. So if you have a Fly modifier of +14 or greater there should be no need to roll hover checks.

Thanks for the reminder. So a +15 fly would be sufficient to hover in place all the time. That solves it, thanks.

Actually, like Rellen said a +14 is all you need since a 1 isn't an auto-fail and 1+14=15. Assuming there aren't any adverse conditions (wind, winged creatures hit during combat, etc) of course.

The same thing could be said of the Ride skill. Once you have sufficient ranks in it you almost never have to make checks.

--Vrocket Powered Roller Skates

[LazarX]

King of Vrock wrote:

ZappoHisbane wrote:

Question wrote:

Rellen wrote:

A natural one does not automatically fail on a skill check, nor does nat 20 auto succeed. So if you have a Fly modifier of +14 or greater there should be no need to roll hover checks.

Thanks for the reminder. So a +15 fly would be sufficient to hover in place all the time. That solves it, thanks.

Actually, like Rellen said a +14 is all you need since a 1 isn't an auto-fail and 1+14=15. Assuming there aren't any adverse conditions (wind, winged creatures hit during combat, etc) of course.

The same thing could be said of the Ride skill. Once you have sufficient ranks in it you almost never have to make checks.

--Vrocket Powered Roller Skates

Then again do you really want a 25 percent chance of falling off your saddle everytime your mount flaps it's wings?

[Here Comes the Spiders]

Who rolls the fly check, the mount or the rider?

[TwilightKnight]

Whomever is performing the flying. In the case of a vrock with a rider, the vrock makes the fly check. The rider would need to make ride checks depending on what actions are being performed