Do you put the +3 bonus for class skills under Misc. MoD. or do you put it under ranks?
Misc. I think there are sheets out there with a line for "Trained".
Kamelguru wrote: Misc. I think there are sheets out there with a line for "Trained". Thanks that's what I thought.
Nicholas Tartaglia wrote: Do you put the +3 bonus for class skills under Misc. MoD. or do you put it under ranks? Right now, under misc (and under Ranks, I usually put a L for level, since most of the time, I just take a couple of skills and max them out), but now that I think of it, this might warrant its own column in the skill section. Maybe instead of the check box for class skill, or maybe do something that combines these.
KaeYoss wrote: Nicholas Tartaglia wrote: Do you put the +3 bonus for class skills under Misc. MoD. or do you put it under ranks? Right now, under misc (and under Ranks, I usually put a L for level, since most of the time, I just take a couple of skills and max them out), but now that I think of it, this might warrant its own column in the skill section. Maybe instead of the check box for class skill, or maybe do something that combines these. Im just wondering because if they are under Misc. MoD. then do they at count as ranks so you can add them to meet a requirement of x ranks in a skill to craft or do y.
This is not really clarified in the Core Rulebook. =(
Nicholas Tartaglia wrote: This is not really clarified in the Core Rulebook. =( Because it doesn't matter where it is on the chart as long as you remember to apply it.
Nicholas Tartaglia wrote: KaeYoss wrote: Nicholas Tartaglia wrote: Do you put the +3 bonus for class skills under Misc. MoD. or do you put it under ranks? Right now, under misc (and under Ranks, I usually put a L for level, since most of the time, I just take a couple of skills and max them out), but now that I think of it, this might warrant its own column in the skill section. Maybe instead of the check box for class skill, or maybe do something that combines these. Im just wondering because if they are under Misc. MoD. then do they at count as ranks so you can add them to meet a requirement of x ranks in a skill to craft or do y. For the purpose of qualifying for prestige classes from 3.5 ( my group allows a degree of crossover ) that skill req.'s from 3.5 classes will require 3 less ranks. This allows them to be taken at the same level as they would in 3.5
Comparing a 3.5 assassin to a pathfinder one, the 3.5 required 8 ranks in hide and move silently. The PF assassin requires 5 ranks stealth. 5 ranks + the (+3) bonus equal 8 ranks in 3.5. I will point out i have not done extensive comparison, only a few classes, this my not translate evenly across the board.
Based on comparison, i would say the +3 is a misc bonus, and that they do not count for prereqs, because of the (for the most part) universal minis 3 in the cross game comparison
Thanks that was the explanation that I was looking for.
If I have a rank in a skill with a check mark next to it, then I just mentally add +3. The check is my way of remembering it.
Elven_Blades wrote:
For the purpose of qualifying for prestige classes from 3.5 ( my group allows a degree of crossover ) that skill req.'s from 3.5 classes will require 3 less ranks. This allows them to be taken at the same level as they would in 3.5
Comparing a 3.5 assassin to a pathfinder one, the 3.5 required 8 ranks in hide and move silently. The PF assassin requires 5 ranks stealth. 5 ranks + the (+3) bonus equal 8 ranks in 3.5. I will point out i have not done extensive comparison, only a few classes, this my not translate evenly across the board.
Based on comparison, i would say the +3 is a misc bonus, and that they do not count for prereqs, because of the (for the most part) universal minis 3 in the cross game comparison
The problem with this is that now a straight class fighter can qualify for the assassin class at the same time a rogue could. There are some instances where this rule would allow full BAB classes qualify for a prestige class at a lower level than intended for any class because they would use ranks in skills that aren't accessible to a full BAB class plus a high BAB, I can only think of a class out of oriental adventures ATM but I'm sure there were others.
With traits allowing additional class skills there is no easy work around to this issue but the closest thing to do would be to leave the ranks as is and make the class skill bonus count for ranks for meeting prereqs.
Diskordant wrote: Elven_Blades wrote:
For the purpose of qualifying for prestige classes from 3.5 ( my group allows a degree of crossover ) that skill req.'s from 3.5 classes will require 3 less ranks. This allows them to be taken at the same level as they would in 3.5
Comparing a 3.5 assassin to a pathfinder one, the 3.5 required 8 ranks in hide and move silently. The PF assassin requires 5 ranks stealth. 5 ranks + the (+3) bonus equal 8 ranks in 3.5. I will point out i have not done extensive comparison, only a few classes, this my not translate evenly across the board.
Based on comparison, i would say the +3 is a misc bonus, and that they do not count for prereqs, because of the (for the most part) universal minis 3 in the cross game comparison
The problem with this is that now a straight class fighter can qualify for the assassin class at the same time a rogue could. There are some instances where this rule would allow full BAB classes qualify for a prestige class at a lower level than intended for any class because they would use ranks in skills that aren't accessible to a full BAB class plus a high BAB, I can only think of a class out of oriental adventures ATM but I'm sure there were others.
With traits allowing additional class skills there is no easy work around to this issue but the closest thing to do would be to leave the ranks as is and make the class skill bonus count for ranks for meeting prereqs. I agree, it's not perfect. It's just a house rule work around for players that want to try some PF classes with 3.x PrC's that don't have a pathfinder equivalent. Such an issue as you have mentioned has not yet come up in my group, ( we didn't even take it into consideration when making the rule ) but we did reserve right to the DM to specifically disallow things, should problems later be encountered.
My recommendation, should you want to play such crossover combinations, is simply ask your dm to take this under advisement and adjust prerequisites as needed. That is his job after all, to make judgements and rulings to help everyone enjoy the game and play the character concept they are looking for.
For your example of the fighter assassin, I understand what you are saying, but pathfinder has an assassin PrC also, and it can be taken by a fighter at 6th level same as a rogue. It's actually easier for a fighter to become an assassin now.
In general, we use the rule from the 3.x books saying that the newest book in print supersedes rules, definitions, and such, than older books in print. PF assassin is newer, so those are the prereqs we go by. And seeing as the you can now have a fighter 5 / assassin 1, or a rogue5 / assassin 1. Maybe it's not even that big a deal to worry about.
Diskordant wrote:
The problem with this is that now a straight class fighter can qualify for the assassin class at the same time a rogue could.
That's the case now, yes, but I wouldn't call it a problem. More like a feature.
Diskordant wrote:
With traits allowing additional class skills there is no easy work around to this issue but the closest thing to do would be to leave the ranks as is and make the class skill bonus count for ranks for meeting prereqs.
Well, Pathfinder operates under the assumption that they don't. So if you change it now, you'll have to change all Pathfinder PrCs to add 3 ranks. Of course, right now, you have to subtract 3 from non-PF PrCs, so you should think about what is more work.
Personally, I suggest a slightly different wording to that rule, one that lets the classes stand as they are: "If a skill that is a prerequisite for the PrC (or anything, really) is not a class skill for you, you need three more ranks."
But I prefer to have no such rule, especially since class skills aren't as fixed as they used to be (traits can add to your list, and a single level of a class that has it on the list gives you full class skill benefit, unlike before where you still would have to pay double for skills that aren't class skills for the class you just levelled-up).
Quote: ...unlike before where you still would have to pay double for skills that aren't class skills for the class you just levelled-up). Not entirely accurate. You could put ranks, on a one for one basis, into the class you are currently leveling into. But next level, if you go back to your first class, you would still have to pay one for .5 on the cross class skill. Essentially it made it really rewarding to take 1 level of rogue at level 8+(your int modifier) and max out a skill you wanted but was cross class
Assassin was a bad choice for an example but there were many PRCs intended to be more easily accessed by a class with specific class skills and a BAB based of medium progression rather than anyone with a full BAB.
Obviously you would only count trained bonus as skill ranks for 3.x material not for pathfinder material.
You could multi-class to gain extra skill ranks in a non-class skill for your main class but this usually came with a price by diluting your class abilities. This reason is why using traits to gain extra class skills is not a huge but rather something to just consider.
obviously as with anything 3.x in pathfinder YMMV.
Elven_Blades wrote: Quote: ...unlike before where you still would have to pay double for skills that aren't class skills for the class you just levelled-up). Not entirely accurate. Yes entirely accurate. If you are, say, a rogue/fighter, and are adding a level of fighter right now, that extra rank in stealth will cost you 2 skill points in 3e, since stealth is not a class skill for fighters.
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