So, if a level 13 character with Leadership 18 took a wyvern as a cohort (CR 6), how does one go about statting out the wyvern for a level 12 cohort? I've never really advanced creatures before using templates or by adding class levels, never played a character this high of level.
Also, are there any rings or wondrous items that give skill benefits specifically to Ride and skills coming in handy for mounts? I'm playing a fighter, and so skill ranks are pretty rare luxuries. I've got the Boots of Elvenkind for acrobatics for jumping to and from the mount quickly, but I'm worried that Ride might still be lacking a bit, but can't find anything to suit my needs.
Aaaaanyone?
First, you'll want to read read the rules for special cohorts. But I'll summarize the main points here.
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So, if a level 13 character with Leadership 18 took a wyvern as a cohort (CR 6), how does one go about statting out the wyvern for a level 12 cohort?
If you are level 13, you can have a cohort no higher then level 11. Your cohort will continue to level up at the rate shown on page 129 of the Pathfinder core book, but will never get closer to your character level than -2 levels.
A wyvern is considered to be a level 10 cohort, so you get to advance it to level 11. (Because your level of 13-2=11)
To advance your cohort to level 11, add one class level, almost certainly a fighter level in this case. Technically you could pick some other class, but fighter is 1) the suggested class by the rules, 2) the easiest class to adapt to a monster, and 3) a very strong choice to go with the wyvern's natural abilities.
Also, are there any rings or wondrous items that give skill benefits specifically to Ride and skills coming in handy for mounts?
A +X skill item can be made for any skill. I'd suggest talking to your GM about either a ring for yourself, or a magical saddle for your wyvern. Also, an item of +X flying skill for the wyvern itself. If you're going to be riding that thing, you really don't want it crashing into any powerlines.
Okay, thanks so much for the help, Blueluck.
So I need to add 1 level of Fighter to a wyvern to give it my cohort level of 11. I have a few questions about doing that.
Firstly, feats. A 1st level fighter of any race typically starts with 2 feats, 1 for being 1st level and 1 bonus fighter feat. Does the wyvern get both of these feats, or only the bonus fighter feat?
Second, base attack bonus. How do I add more BAB to the wyvern's BAB of +7 as it advances in Fighter levels? Seeing as the creature has 4 different attacks (sting, bite, 2 wings), does the +1 BAB add to all of the natural attacks? What happens when the +1 becomes a +6/+1, and the wyvern is supposed to gain a new attack but in reality its had 4 attacks in its full attack all along?
Here are the stats for the wyvern, copy+pasted from the SRD, for the convenience of whoever can answer my questions.
XP 2,400
N Large dragon
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +18
DEFENSE
AC 19, touch 10, flat-footed 18 (+1 Dex, +9 natural, –1 size)
hp 73 (7d12+28)
Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +8
Immune sleep, paralysis
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (poor)
Melee sting +10 melee (1d6+4 plus poison), bite +10 melee (2d6+4 plus grab), 2 wings +5 (1d6+2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attack rake (2 talons +10, 1d6+4)
STATISTICS
Str 19, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +7; CMB +12 (+16 grapple); CMD 23
Feats Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills Fly +5, Perception +18, Sense Motive +11, Stealth +7; Racial Modifier +4 Perception
Languages Draconic
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Poison (Ex)
Sting—injury; save DC 17; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d4 Constitution damage; cure 2 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.
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Feats:
The wyvern has a few feats from its 7 racial HD already. Normally, they are Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Perception). You are free to change those feats. The fighter HD is HD number 8 for the wyvern. That means it gets a fighter feat for Fighter 1, but no regular feat. You don't get a feat at 8th level.
Basically, it has 7 levels in 'wyvern'. So when it hits fighter 2, it should get a feat because it'll be Wyvern 7/Fighter 2 = 9th level.
A wyvern is considered to be a level 10 cohort even though it only has 7 levels in wyvern. That's because it has a lot of other abilities (flight, poison, natural attacks, natural armor) that are easily worth 3 levels or so.
BAB
When a wyvern's BAB reaches +6, it will be capable of iterative attacks. However, iterative attacks may only be made with one natural weapon (or perhaps up to two with TWF fun stuff, I'm a little fuzzy on that). But if you wish to attack with all the wyvern's natural weapons, you must forgo the iterative attack at +1. This is typically considered to be "worth it".
If your wyvern somehow starts wielding a weapon, it can make a full attack with the weapon iteratively (+6/+1), and then attack with a natural weapon (at -5). This will probably never be worth it.
So basically, I can use the wyvern's full attack at the normal attack bonuses, or I can use a single attack (probably sting or bite) and add the Fighter +1 to BAB to that attack? Would that become a +11 to attack (10 original, +1 extra BAB), or just a +5 to attack (1 BAB, 4 STR)?
And thanks again for the help. I understand the feat selection perfectly, now, still just a little hazy on the BAB.
EDIT: I also just realized this should definitely be in the Rules section, and not Advice. Thanks for humoring me anyway, folks :)
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Er, sorry. I wasn't clear. Also, I was a tad confused already.
A wyvern starts with a BAB of +7. Says so in the stat block. This is already added to the regular attacks. He can already make iterative attacks with any weapon he wields.
But you can't attack iteratively with natural weapons. I was confused and unclear on that point before. Instead, you get to attack with multiple weapons, which is usually better anyways.
With 1 level in Fighter, all the wyvern's +10 attacks go up to +11. All the +5 attacks go to +6.
Okay, awesome, I think I understand it all now haha. Thanks so much for clarifying and helping me out.
You'll also want to talk to your GM about gear. It should come with a little more than 10,000 gold worth of useful stuff.
I assume there's some story about how this particular wyvern is becoming your cohort. If not, I'd suggest making something up. It will be a whole lot more interesting. A story that involves the wyvern having been a battle mount for someone else before you would go a long way toward explaining him having gear useful for that task. Alternatively, you're GM might let the wyvern have a dragon-like horde of money and gems that it's happy to let you spend that money on it's behalf - so long as IT is the beneficiary of that spending, of course!
Some gear I would look into:
- Chain Shirt Barding +1
1550 gold, +5 AC, Armor check penalty -1, weight 50 lbs
With an naked AC of 19 your mount will be very vulnerable attacks at your level. Fortunately as a level 1 fighter, your mount learns proficiency with armor! AC 24 isn't outstanding, but you can always improve the level of enchantment on this later or pick up other protective items. - Exotic Military Saddle with the skill enchantment Fly +5
2560 Gold, 30 lbs
Flying. That's his job! It will pay to be skilled. You'll want to increase this later too. I've never seen an official ruling, but I've usually said a saddle takes up the body or chest magic item slot. - Ring of Feather falling
2200 gold
Saves his butt and yours when he's knocked out while in flight! - Ring of sustenance
2500 gold
It might not matter to your GM, but the description of wyverns says, "Although constantly hungry and prone to mayhem, a wyvern that can be befriended . . . such arrangements are quite costly in terms of food and gold" and I'd be a lot more generous about keeping your big beast fed and happy if it just never got hungry or thirsty.
After those items, I'd focus on keeping defenses high. Because you depend on your mount but it is weaker than a party member, shoring up AC, hit points, and saving throws is a good idea. Items that increase flying or ground speed, maneuverability, or fly skill are probably the next most important.
By the way, what race and class is your character?
A couple of corrections that I thought would be important to mention here. I only stumbled across these things because every single player in my gaming group has picked up a cohort. (Yes, all seven of them have cohorts and yes, it's a nightmare to plan combat.)
First, the chart indicated on page 129 only indicates the highest level cohort you can gain when you select the feat. Otherwise your cohort gains experience points sort of like a regular character.
Cohort Level: You can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of your Leadership score, you can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than yourself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Creating NPCs). A cohort can be of any race or class. The cohort's alignment may not be opposed to your alignment on either the law/chaos or good/evil axis, and you take a –1 penalty to your Leadership score if you recruit a cohort of an alignment different from your own.
A cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP. Instead, divide the cohort's level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to you, then add that number of experience points to the cohort's total.
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level.
The last two paragraphs explain how cohorts level. You will note that you only reference the table when gaining the cohort. This is only really important if you are playing to level 20, or have a Leadership score that is lower than your level (through a low Charisma or through miscellaneous penalties).
As far as the gear that the wyvern should come equipped with, that is somewhat less clear. The feat references the Creating NPCs guidelines, which allot 12,750 gold for an 11th level cohort (which this wyvern will be after gaining a single class level). However, a wyvern is listed as having "Treasure: Standard" rather than "Treasure: NPC Gear", which could be read that a wyvern would only have about 2,000 gold worth of stuff. You will likely want to talk to your GM about which values to use. Keep in mind that, from this point on, you are expected to supply gear for your cohort out of your portion of the wealth. The wyvern does not get his own portion of loot, but instead shares yours. Keeping him properly equipped will be important, and potentially costly.
Another thing that you will need to talk to your GM about is what stat array your wyvern comes with. The wyvern in the bestiary (and the one you kindly put in the spoiler) has the "monster array", that is having all 10s and 11s plus racial modifiers. However, since this wyvern in now an NPC, it might gain one of the two NPC stat arrays. Since the wyvern would likely be considered a "melee NPC", his stats could either of the following:
Basic - Str 21, Dex 12, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 12, Cha 7
Heroic - Str 23, Dex 14, Con 22, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 7
Which array (monster, basic, heroic) the wyvern gets will very much be up to the GM, and will depend partially on how high or low the fantasy of your game world is, and what point buy/stat generation method used to create the PCs.
Further, feat selection is not clear cut. The bestiary states that the feats presented in the various entries are simply typical feat selections and can be modified to suit the needs of the creature. So swapping feats out will likely not be a huge deal. However, whether you get to select those feats or whether they are selected for you is up to your GM. In my group, we let the players select the feats for their cohorts (same with class levels and everything else), but not all GMs feel this way. Some feel that the cohort is very specifically a Non-Player Character, and therefore the class/feat/skill choices of that NPC are not up to the player, any more than the classes/feats/skills of the blacksmith or city guards in the town they just entered are up to the PCs. Discuss with your GM what he or she expects before just bringing in a character sheet.
You will also need to get a clear ruling from your GM on how an intelligent mount (Int 7) and the Ride skill interact. The text of the Ride skill very much assumes a standard mount (horse or riding dog) and not one that can think and act for itself. Conclusions need also be arrived upon for how saves (particularly Reflex saves) and attacks against the intelligent mount interact with the Mounted Combat feat (which also seems to assume a mount of Int 1 or Int 2).
For comparison, at my table, we have three players who have chosen to have griffon cohorts. We have agreed to let them use the Ride skill to direct their mount in combat and to use the Mounted Combat feat to use the Ride skill to negate a hit in combat. However, in a thread on the subject that I had posted quite a while back, many GMs said that they would not allow either, requiring Diplomacy/Intimidate checks to direct the mount (if an action was not something the mount would willingly do anyway) and that Mounted Combat could not be used to negate an attack against the mount. Their reasoning was that, when communicating with an intelligent being, a player should not be allowed to replace what would normally be a Charisma based skill (usually a dump stat for mounted characters) with a Dexterity based skill.
In any event, I hope you enjoy your wyvern. I really wish one of my players had selected one instead of the griffons (or half-celestial unicorn, or dracolisk, or half-dragon deinonychus...or awakened raven with bard levels...).
Thanks all the extra information, though I do have a comment on that quote you used, Mauril. At the bottom there it says (with emphasis added),
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level.
which I understand to mean that it will always have to be at least 2 levels lower than me.
As far as attribute arrays, yeah I just used what was written. I directed my DM to this thread so I'm sure he'll come check it out eventually. He always expressed specific interest in wanting to design the cohort himself (which is what he usually does as DM), but I went ahead and did it anyway as a learning experience and to make life easier on him (now he can change feats and ability score bonuses without having to deal so much with the number crunches). Mostly though I wanted to see if I could do it, hah.
My character is a Human Fighter (Free-Hand Fighter) 10/Chevalier 3. The backstory we came up with is I fought the wyvern, beat him, and then said I would spare his life if he made an oath never to hurt another good being. He agreed on the condition that I bring him with me as a friend and companion because, as he knows I am an adventurer, there will rarely be a moment when there's not something evil lying around for him to eat. Our characters are starting at 13th level, so we didn't need to actually act this out.
Thanks all the extra information, though I do have a comment on that quote you used, Mauril. At the bottom there it says (with emphasis added),
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level.which I understand to mean that it will always have to be at least 2 levels lower than me.
This is correct. Your cohort might be more than two levels below you, based on experience points gained. However, the highest level it can attain would be your level minus two.