Hi everyone!
I have a question:
So I'm completely in love with the item I've created, but I'm worried that it may have the SAK problem. It does indeed have a variety of effects, but each is uniquely specific to its own set of circumstances. So while it has a range of abilities, it's not something that can really do everything all the time. Naturally, it's all thematically linked, and in fact, the effects are all variations of the same mechanic. Fortunately, while it sounds like it might be a headache, none of my proof-readers have had any trouble whatsoever understanding it.
So based on that fairly nebulous description, would you say that I should be concerned?
Word count currently weighs in at about 242 (eep, that's long!).
Thank you!
It's hard to give any definite advice without really knowing what your item does based on this vague description, but it sounds pretty much like a Swiss army knife right now. If the abilities are thematically linked ( with an interesting flavor) you might be good, but not for sake of not being a SaK but thanks to rule #27.
But interpretations of SaK vary, so I'll give you a quick example of what I consider a SaK and what not.
1. The SaK
Phaser
Aura overwhelming technology; CL 23rd Century
Slot hand(held); Price 5000 credits; Weight 1 lbs.
Description
This small, handheld weapon has multiple settings, and can be used to dispatch foes in a wide number of ways. With each setting you need to succeed on a ranged touch attack to target a creature. A fully charged Phaser has 50 charges and each setting drains a different number of charges per shot.
The Settings are:
Stun:
The target creature must succeed on a DC 15 Fort save or be stunned for 5 rounds (2 Charges)
Pain:
The target creature must succeed on a DC 15 Fort save or be nauseated for 1 round and sickened for 1 minute thereafter (3 Charges)
Kill:
The target creature takes 2d6 points of damage (1 Charge)
Disable:
The target creature takes 4d6 nonlethal damage (2 Charges)
Vaporize:
The target creature is affected by a disintegrate Spell with a caster level equal to 1/2 the number of charges left in the phaser ( drains all remaining charges)
Construction
Requirements Replication Unit, shocking Grasp,summon redshirt; Cost 2500 credits
not a SaK:
Jet Pack
Aura strong conjuration; CL 7th
Slot backpack; Price 25000 gp; Weight 6 lbs.
Description
This backpack gives you a +5 circumstance bonus on Acrobatics checks made to Jump.
3/day the Jet Pack may be activated to erupt with a powerful bast of Air,allowing the wearer to fly with a speed of 120 ft and poor maneuverability. While airborn the wearer gains concealment against projectile weapons, as they are knocked away by the strong winds the Jet Pack conjures.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, entropic shield,gust of wind,jump; Cost 12500 gp
the first item has multiple effects and you may choose which to use in any given situation, the latter has multiple effects, but all are either continuous or are activated at the same time.
Forum ate my post.
to me your items sounds quite SaK'ish, but given your necessarily vague description I can't tell for sure.
Also remember, given rule #27 you might be good to go, your focus just needs to be tight enough and cool enough.
Also what people perceive as a SaK may vary, so I'll give you an example wat is and what isn't a SaK in my book.
First the SaK:
Phaser
Aura overwhelming technology; CL 27th century
Slot hand(held); Price 5000 credits; Weight 1 lbs.
Description
this handheld device has a vast number of settings, designed to dispatch unfriendlies in varying convenient ways. A fully charged phaser has 50 charges and each function expends a different number of charges. To hit with a phaser "shot" you must suceed on a ranged touch attack.
Stun:
The target creature must succeed on a DC 15 Fort save or be stunned for 5 rounds ( 3 charges)
Pain:
The target creature must succeed on a Dc 15 Fort save or be nauseated for 1 round and after that sickened of 1 minute (2 Charges)
Kill:
the target creature takes 2d6 damage (1 Charge)
Disable:
The target creature takes 4d points of nonlethal damage ( 1 Charge)
Vaporize:
The target creature is hit by a disintegrate spell with a CL equal to 1/2 the number of charges left ( expends all remaining charges)
Construction
Requirements Replication unit, shocking grasp, summon redshirt; Cost 2500credits
2. the non SaK
Jet Pack
Aura strong conjuration; CL 13th
Slot backpack; Price 25000 gp; Weight 6 lbs.
Description
This magical backpack gives it's wearer a +5 circumstance bonus on acrobatics checks made to jump.
3/day the Jet pack may be activated to exhaust a strong blast of air, allowing the wearer to fly with a speed of 120ft and poor maneuverability. While airborne, the wearer gains protection from projectile weapons, because the strong winds knock them out of the way. he gains a 20% miss chance against those attacks.
Construction
Requirements Craft wondrous item, gust of wind, protection from arrows, jump; Cost 12500 gp
the first item has multiple abilities, that can be used one at a time and when using the item I can decide which ability to use.
The second item has multiple abilities too, but all of them are either continuous or activated at the same time.
In my book the first is a SaK , the second not.
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Hi everyone!
I have a question:
So I'm completely in love with the item I've created, but I'm worried that it may have the SAK problem. It does indeed have a variety of effects, but each is uniquely specific to its own set of circumstances. So while it has a range of abilities, it's not something that can really do everything all the time. Naturally, it's all thematically linked, and in fact, the effects are all variations of the same mechanic. Fortunately, while it sounds like it might be a headache, none of my proof-readers have had any trouble whatsoever understanding it.
So based on that fairly nebulous description, would you say that I should be concerned?
Word count currently weighs in at about 242 (eep, that's long!).
Thank you!
Pretty much all items are SAKs. What matters is how you put it together. If you item thematically puts them together and it makes sense, then don't worry about it. Azmahel gave a good example. Another is something like "The Beholder Helm" where it can shoot different effects from the eye stalks on the helm. Cool Campaign item, but major SAK and SIAC.
Hey all,
What about an item with four or five abilities that all tightly fit together in one theme, building on one another? That is, they are just variations on the same effect. I know that's obscure, but we must be to keep our item from being rejected :)
Are these items SAKs?
Decanter of Endless Water
Gem of Brightness
Robe of Scintillating Colors
Robe of Stars
Cube of Force
Strand of Prayer Beads
Helm of Brilliance
Thanks,
Ken
Forum ate my post.
to me your items sounds quite SaK'ish, but given your necessarily vague description I can't tell for sure.
Also remember, given rule #27 you might be good to go, your focus just needs to be tight enough and cool enough.
Also what people perceive as a SaK may vary, so I'll give you an example wat is and what isn't a SaK in my book.
]
Perhaps you guys should read through this thread.
Wondrous Item auto-reject advice #2: Swiss Army Knife
This has been discussed a fair amount already.
Thanks Scipion,
I had forgotten he mentioned some of those already.
Thanks,
Ken
Perhaps you guys should read through this thread.
Wondrous Item auto-reject advice #2: Swiss Army Knife
This has been discussed a fair amount already.
Thanks Charles,
You make good points. I'm still torn, but in the end I'll have to balance that "Is it cool enough" out with the "Is it an SAK"?
I appreciate the advice guys!
Ken
Hmm. I think that a problem with the list you present is that you're quoting items from rulebooks, which aren't necessarily RPGSuperstar items in the first place... The judges have often said of items in the 'Clark give me feedback!' threads of previous years that xxx of yyy would be quite decent in an item book, but isn't really 'Superstar'.
Given the prominence that Sean gave to his Rule #27 (putting it out there as his final thread in the list) it seems to me that the most important criteria to the judges is is the item awesome enough for them? If an item has the appearance of a Swiss Army Knife, then it's handicapping itself to some extent, needing to be that much more awesome to overcome the inherent Swiss Army Knife-ishness.
Not sure that that will make much sense to you, but hope that it's helpful.Edit:
Ah, forestalled by a much simpler, better, post by Scipion. :)
Short answer: yes it would be a SaK. To a varying extend. But rule #27 might save you if your theme is tight enough and sexy enough.
Decanter of Endless Water--
Mostly No, Because it isn't paired with a SiaC (and most SaK's are) and the different abilities aren't different, but the same ability with different power.
Gem of Brightness---
Yes, absolutely. Even the format screams SaK. But is it a "bad" one? Thats up to you to judge.
Robe of Scintillating Colors--
No. You have no Powers to choose from. they are all activated at the same time.
Robe of Stars--
Yes, to an extension, since it's powers are continuous not activated, except for the shurikens. It would have been easy to dodge the issue here, but the Powers are too varied to really belong together.
Cube of Force--
Yes, and a complicated one to boot. But it is thematically fitting. All it does is keeping (different) things out. Also it has a cool extra draining mechanic. It would Rule 27 it to be ok ;)
Strand of Prayer Beads
Yes. and also an Build your own item - item. thats the worst kind of SaK there is.
Helm of Brilliance
Yes, it also tries to do too much at the same time. It's a cool item, but you also see it struggling not to loose focus. Sean once said "if your item costs more than 250,000gp it probably isn't a wondrous item anymore". I extend that to: "If it costs 100,000gp or more you are likely trying to cram too much stuff into it"
But thats just imho, so ymmv ;)
Wow! Thanks Azmahel :)
As usual, you step up with a great understanding and explanation. I appreciate the input!
Ken
Short answer: yes it would be a SaK. To a varying extend. But rule #27 might save you if your theme is tight enough and sexy enough.
Decanter of Endless Water--
Mostly No, Because it isn't paired with a SiaC (and most SaK's are) and the different abilities aren't different, but the same ability with different power.Gem of Brightness---
Yes, absolutely. Even the format screams SaK. But is it a "bad" one? Thats up to you to judge.Robe of Scintillating Colors--
No. You have no Powers to choose from. they are all activated at the same time.Robe of Stars--
Yes, to an extension, since it's powers are continuous not activated, except for the shurikens. It would have been easy to dodge the issue here, but the Powers are too varied to really belong together.Cube of Force--
Yes, and a complicated one to boot. But it is thematically fitting. All it does is keeping (different) things out. Also it has a cool extra draining mechanic. It would Rule 27 it to be ok ;)Strand of Prayer Beads
Yes. and also an Build your own item - item. thats the worst kind of SaK there is.Helm of Brilliance
Yes, it also tries to do too much at the same time. It's a cool item, but you also see it struggling not to loose focus. Sean once said "if your item costs more than 250,000gp it probably isn't a wondrous item anymore". I extend that to: "If it costs 100,000gp or more you are likely trying to cram too much stuff into it"But thats just imho, so ymmv ;)
So, is it safe to say that since my item doesn't replicate any existing SIAC type of effect (that is to say, it doesn't replicate any spell whatsoever), that I probably don't need to be concerned with the SAK issue (since that is mainly a compound SIAC)?
So, is it safe to say that since my item doesn't replicate any existing SIAC type of effect (that is to say, it doesn't replicate any spell whatsoever), that I probably don't need to be concerned with the SAK issue (since that is mainly a compound SIAC)?
No, but it is a good indicator. Another good indicator is what different effects are put into it. Or in another sense, how many situations will the item be very useful (or at least more useful) when compared to various mundane items? Just moves or moves and combat? Skills and BAB? conjuration, necromancy, and illusion? low level and high level? counters x abilities of Githeye-tyrantzarees?
A tightly made set of abilities are used make most superheros which is not SAK (because they are comic books/movies. Adding climbing, swinging, web slinging, and spidey-sense will look SAK in a wondrous item imho o:).
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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A tightly made set of abilities are used make most superheros which is not SAK (because they are comic books/movies. Adding climbing, swinging, web slinging, and spidey-sense will look SAK in a wondrous item imho o:).
Interesting thought.
Now looking at Superheroes as SAK, Superman, Martian Manhunter seem to qualify, while Batmen/Red Robin/Batgirl/Robin are SAK incarnate.
I can think of a couple that might not be (and would be good examples).
Wonder girl's lasso. (unbreakable, can channel Zeus' lightning so it's kind of a +3 shocking lasso. Not a wondrous item, but not a SAK)
Cyclops' powers. Varying intensity and spatial awareness. Put them in goggles and it wouldn't be a SAK.
an item that gave someone Deadman's powerset. (wraithform, magic jar)
A bracer that gave the wearer the grab ability, and to extend 50' of rope that dissolved after a round, and the ability to cast web 3/day would be a tight thematic item (and a likely IP violation)