I know same type of poison stack by increasing DC by 2 and +50% duration
however what about differen't types of poison
say I have a quiver containing
Arrow poisoned with Large Scorpion Venom DC17 , 1d2STR
Arrow poisoned with Purple Worm Posion DC24 , 1d3 STR
Arrow poisoned with Dragon Bile DC26 1d3STR
say these all hit and the hapless victim rolls poorly and fails all 3 saves
does each poison now deliver it own effect stacking for a horrific 3-8 (avg5.5) STR damage repeating for 6 rounds (33STR dmg)?
(which if they've been hit with an ability that reduces thier fort save by a decent amount will keep them failing)
Or do they not stack and you'd roll 1d2, 1d3 and 1d3 and use the highest dice roll which is a max of 3 ?
(and yes I know this would be a very expensive use of expendables)
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I think poisons that have the same effect (or the parts of each poison's effect that are the same) should stack, just rolling the largest damage roll and applying the highest DC, +2 for each other poison regardless of effect. Poisons that have different effects each apply and save separately but have an increased DC.
The victim mentioned would take 1d3 STR, save DC 30.
Actually, it seems odd that the scorpion venom would even affect the DC of the dragon bile.
Are there any rules to similar poison effects just increasing DC? I would think they would all apply separately
Good to know you're aware the same poison stacks to increase the Duration and DC of the save.
As for multiple poisons they really should all have their own effects. Since all strength penalties are going to be coming from different sources of poison (each requiring its own save).
However, how long poison lasts on a weapon is pretty ambiguous. There don't seem to be any rules that currently dictate if you can or cannot have pre-poisoned items, how to transport them and if/when/how an item loses its toxicity. Poisoning an item is a standard action, as you are probably aware.
Just be aware that may come up, but overall this seems like a valid (if expensive) use of poisoning.
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I know same type of poison stack by increasing DC by 2 and +50% duration
however what about differen't types of poison
say I have a quiver containing
Arrow poisoned with Large Scorpion Venom DC17 , 1d2STR
Arrow poisoned with Purple Worm Posion DC24 , 1d3 STR
Arrow poisoned with Dragon Bile DC26 1d3STRsay these all hit and the hapless victim rolls poorly and fails all 3 saves
does each poison now deliver it own effect stacking for a horrific 3-8 (avg5.5) STR damage repeating for 6 rounds (33STR dmg)?
(which if they've been hit with an ability that reduces thier fort save by a decent amount will keep them failing)Or do they not stack and you'd roll 1d2, 1d3 and 1d3 and use the highest dice roll which is a max of 3 ?
(and yes I know this would be a very expensive use of expendables)
Well, just think of poison as complex chemicals. What happens when you mix alot of crazy stuff together, especially toxic chemicals? They typically combine to make the consumption, injection, inhalation of the compounds much more harmful and dangerous. Logic aside, I'd say they all apply individually, for a combined effect. This is to say, calculate the effects of each separately and add them together for the final effect.
As an aside, the way I do poisons is a little more realistic and deadly, the more doses of a particular substance one is exposed to, the more likely it is to take effect and the more likely the effect will be enhanced. This makes spelunking near a drow settlement all the more dangerous since even lowly drow can conceivably get a few hand crossbow bolts tipped with their signature poison past the defenses of even the most powerful parties. I find that assassins become truly feared instead of just specialized rogues with underwhelming specials that have virtually no chance of effecting high level characters.
No. You don't want someone getting a double dose of black lotus extract just because a cheapskate shot them up with a dose of large spider venom afterwards.
What I am able to figure out about poisons, toxins, and venoms in the real world is actually very little help. I am no toxicologist, and nor do I claim to have any far reaching knowledge on the subject, but from what I could find, it appears that the worst poisons spread quickly and shut down whatever it is that the compound is designed to target.
In game terms, I would translate this to "faster onset, higher DC, lots of damage."
Since each compound is chemically different, I suspect that each would attack a different way and overall speed the process up. Say the scorpion venom is a neurotoxin (likely). It's going to attack the nervous system and it translates to game terms by making the body weaker (Str damage).
The dragon bile probably is acidic... (this is gonna be a stretch)... it might increase the amount of acidic material in the blood to the point that the muscles begin to fail for a lack of oxygen (caused by the decreased percentage of blood in the mixture). This would also cause a burning sensation.
Going with this, I would say that each individual poison deals damage separately. (OUCH!) **This is if you are going for realism.** However, the DCs would not stack. Each would require its own saving throw as normal, and each would have its own duration (though if they all take effect, it may not matter lol XD).
Just my POV, and I didn't use RAW reference, so this post may be moot. (I know how "realism" is treated around here.)
i guess what i keep comming back to is that if the 3 poisons in my example did differnt ability dmg i.e. STR DEX and CON then there'd be no dispute to apply each poison seperately.
also again throwing in realism poison often is most potent locally, i.e. where it enters the body.
and being hit 3 times on differnet parts of your body would mean is spreads through your body faster, simply due to shorter distance to cover your body from mutliple sites.
that said in general pathfinder tries to avoid stacking, and perhaps one should pay attention to the written rules for same poisons that multiple does increase DC and duration not amount of dmg per round.
a tricky one to be sure
Since there are no rules to the contrary, all three poisons would behave normally. You would roll three different saves, and since ability damage normally stacks, it would stack in this case as well.
It's also worth mentioning that if you are stung by a large scorpion, and 1 minute later (after the poison has left your system) you are stung again, the second poisoning affects you normally, the DC doesn't change, and the ability damage stacks.
The poisons have different names, come from different sources, and should be chemically different. The fact that they do Str damage is just a simplification of what it would do IRL. They should each be handled separately. [nod]
Just like if you hit an enemy three times with a longsword. The slashing damage stacks; each wound is different. :D
If it is the same poison... no they do not stack. But the stronger or longer duration takes over.
If it is a different poison ... yes they should stack.