Help with Hyde

[BenignFacist]

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*flying ninja salutes to all*

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Greetings glorious citizens!

It is I, you humble, all-powerful leader!

I bring peace, love and toast!

..and I seek advice...

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The Given

You have read Ogre's guide: Ogre's Lab

Credit where credit is due - however, Ogre is a busy busy humanoid and even he, tho graced with a man-meat of apparent biblical proportions, cannot dwell on every aspect of the class for as long as he might wish.

That's where the fine citizens (you and that shifty looking bugger to on your left) come in:

The Ponderable

Q: What MIGHTY methods and means can you imagine for optimising the combat potential of a melee alchemist?

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Crib Notes

-- been thinking about a weapon focused Hyde-type, with some levels in Barbarian (ideally Drunken Brute). Delay access to some alchemical abilities but gain a small HP boost, proficiency in all martial weapons and a +2 hit/dmg boost for a number of rounds.

-- been worrying about natural weapons (Feral Mutagen) and their effectiveness at higher levels.

-- I hear some folk have explored Dex-focused builds, but typically for bomber-type alchemists. Thoughts on a dex based skirmisher Hyde? High AC, possible thrown weapon spam (daggers/throw anything)...

-- how much can we boost Str, assuming a 20 stat start?

-- Must remember to switch of the lights before I leave the Secret Mountain Fortress

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Summary

For those that cannot wangle your way through words and warble:

What are your ideas for optimising a Hyde-type (melee focused) Alchemist?

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Thanking you with extra ration-tokens in advance,

Your Humble, All-Powerful Leader

*shakes fist*

[BenignFacist]

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To get the ball rolling and show where my head be at:

Using the array: 18, 14, 14, 12, 12, 8*

Spoiler:

* Stats assigned to me by our current DM

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Barbarian (Drunken Brute):1/Alchemist: 1

Str 20 (18 +2 Racial)
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 8

Race: Human

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Initiative

Extracts: Enlarge Person, Keen Senses, Ant Haul, CL Wounds

Notes:

Str 30 with Mutagen, Rage and Enlarge Person active.

Can use Ant Haul to easily carry around several barrels of beer/booze (to be used to extend Rage ala' Drunken Brute ability)

Access to martial Weapons.

Slight HP boost.

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Alchemist: 2

Str: 20
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

Race: Human

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Initiative

Extracts: Keen Senses, Obscure Scent, Enlarge Person, Shield, Expeditious Retreat.

Discovery: Feral Mutagen

Notes:

Ungodly amount of damage when Feral Mutagen, Enlarge Person and Power Attack active. (1d8+10, 1d8+10, 2d6+10 = 34 min.dmg/44 avg.dmg/58 max.dmg)

Minty Fresh Breath.

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Thoughts?

*shakes alchemical fist*

[Criik]

While mine might not be completely optimized, I have been having fun with him. In PfS (so using 20 pt buy) I went with

Dwarf
Fighter 1/Alchemist 1
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14 (12+2 race)
Int: 14
Wis: 9 (7+2 race)
Cha: 5 (7-2 race)

Access to heavy armor (full plate)
Access to martial weapons (dwarven dorn-dergar in particular)
Slightly more Hit points

Feats: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
Extracts: Shield, Enlarge Person, True Strike, Expeditious Retreat

Notes:

• 22 Strength with Mutagen, Enlarge Person active
  
• 25 AC with Mutagen, Enlarge Person, Shield active
  
• 15-20 ft reach with Dorn-dergar with Enlarge Person
  

Alchemist 2
Feat (added): Dodge
Discovery: Feral Mutagen
Notes:
[list]

Slightly less dmg (only +8s instead of +10s) on the 5-10 ft range

15-20 ft reach/threat with dorn-dergar for battlefield control

26 AC with Mutagen, Enlarge Person, Shield

As you can see, I went more with a battlefield control type than just pure damage. I was originally planning on going to go with the Darting Viper feat (change dorn-dergar from reach/melee as free instead of move action), but I've pushed that back for now. Having the 4 square radius of threat and combat reflexes really makes for either bashing in some extra damage or making the DM force some fancy footwork and changes in tactics. I am looking at the Stand Still and Combat Patrol feats also (why I grabbed Dodge).

The 20' move is a bit of a disadvantage, but I got a Wand of Longstrider that I currently UMD and I plan on getting Boots of Sprinting and Leaping (or w/e they are called) to help with my movement.

[Dragonsong]

Are you shooting for master chymist prestige class (APG p.267)?

A Full BAB alchemist prestige that gets some boosts to mutagens as well as straight damage pumps with natural attacks and simple weapons

If so, as you need 3rd level extracts I might hold off on the barbarian level

If not rage in good health!

[Eric Clingenpeel]

I haven't really tried for a Hyde character yet, but I will point out one failing of your Alchemist 2. You wouldn't have Power Attack. Prereq BAB +1. At first level when you'd take the feats you wouldn't qualify for it. So that might limit you a bit, at least until 3rd lvl. For the Barb, I'd probably drop Keen Senses for Shield. For a melee fighter I'd think having more AC would be vastly more useful than being able to see a bit better in the dark.

[Criik]

I misunderstood the OPs posting of the his 2 "builds"..when he said Alchemist 2, I read it as when he took the 2nd level of Alchemist (thus Barb 1/Alch 2). For my build, the 2nd part was the Fighter 1/Alch 2 build. Just showing what it added at class level 3.

[BenignFacist]

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Criik - no worries matey, still interesting to see you thoughts and build.

Eric - cheers, hmm, Blind Fighting or.. something something. The lack of +1 BAB until 3rd on a pure Alch is hurtig.

All - thank you for your thoughts. They really do help.

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I found this chap:

THIS CHAP

Seems solid - the WIll save is a bit of an accident waiting to happen tho..

...still, I like the flexibility - decent melee thanks to Elf Racial Weapon Prof and Mutagen Boost on the Str, decent bomb attacks thanks to the higher Dex - *and* the AC is solid.

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*shakes fist*