Can a 1st level rogue take the Extra Rogue Talent Feat in the APG to gain a Rogue Talent at first level? The pre-requisite is that the class has to have the Rogue Talent class feature which the rogue does. If that works then if you chose say weapon finesse as you rogue talent would you get it with out meeting the prerequisite. The combat trick gives combat feats and specifically says you must meat the pre-requisites to take a combat feat.
Now I'd ague that you can't take extra rogue talent till you at least have a rogue talent. But the counter argument that a Paladin can use a wand of cure light wounds before they actually can cast spells which is sort of the same since spell casting is class feature and using a wand requires the class feature to cast spell and that spell being on you spell list.
The question came up because it seems to be loop hole to gain Weapon Finesse at 1st level instead of second level. My argument now against it is that you still need to meet the pre-req unless it says so specifically that you don't like the ranger.
Weapon finesse has not longer the +1 BAB prereq.
You can't take feats to get extra class features before you actually GET the class feature...
Its not specifically stated because it should be obvious IMHO.
I agree - you can't take an improvement on an Ability, unless you already have that ability to start with!
I saw examples of this written in a few places in the APG, but I don't remember off hand where it was written.
Great, my thinking was correct on this one.
As for the Paladin, I personally think they'd have to wait till 4th to use the wand. That's just opinion though.
Great, my thinking was correct on this one.
As for the Paladin, I personally think they'd have to wait till 4th to use the wand. That's just opinion though.
Oh, they can?
I though they couldn't use a wand until they have access to Spell themselves... Is this mentioned/specified in the rules? (that a low level paladin can use a wand without resorting to Use Magic Device).I always though a low level Paladin did not have a Spell List (he can't cast spells!) thus he could not use a wand directly...!!
|
I fully agree on the class feature part and unable to gain improvements until you actually have the sufficient level for that class feature.
Regarding the use of wands, that simply falls under the UMD rules, up until the paladin in the case is able to cast spells. After 4th level, he no longer needs to apply UMD rules unless using a wand with a spell outside his list. That's why UMD exists. Heck if a barbarian with UMD ranks can use it, why not a paladin? UMD allows any character the ability to use a wand or other item that applies to the UMD rules.
Just read the UMD rules and you'll know I'm right.
But you can use a magic item without UMD, but the risks involved might be great.
|
|
BTW, I absolutely can't stand Paizo's message board forum. It's the worst forum in existence. Navigation sucks. It's layout sucks. There's no way to even know when replies to threads you've posted in have had new posts added. For such a big company, you'd think they'd have something more professional.
But enough of my rant.
Actually in case of spell-trigger items it is explicitly stated that classes that gain spellcasting at level higher than 1st level can spell-trigger item as long as the spell is on a class spell list (3rd level Paladin is used as example).
|
There's no way to even know when replies to threads you've posted in have had new posts added.
But enough of my rant.
You didn't spot the dots by the sides of threads you've posted in, or the Focus button to see only those threads you have replied in? Maybe actually get informed before critiquing something.
|
|
Actually in case of spell-trigger items it is explicitly stated that classes that gain spellcasting at level higher than 1st level can spell-trigger item as long as the spell is on a class spell list (3rd level Paladin is used as example).
Ah, well I missed that somewhere, somehow. Even better.
there's a board for that :P
Heh, yeah. I'll add a comment, but nothing will/can be done about it. Who the heck want to go and convert all these existing posts to a new forum format? LOL
You didn't spot the dots by the sides of threads you've posted in, or the Focus button to see only those threads you have replied in? Maybe actually get informed before critiquing something.
Little dots? Never noticed them before now. Focus button? Still don't know what that is. And I'm fairly well informed since on many occasions I've tried reading through these threads here only to give up.
As I said, enough of my rant, and there's no reason for leading this topic off subject. If you don't like my rant, report it so it's removed. Trying to insult someone is only petty and foolish. As an experienced navigator of this board, I'm well enough informed to Critique this board. If you didn't like what I had to say, well, to bad.
|
|
I wasn't trying to insult you, I just dislike it when people complain about features without even being aware of them. If you haven't spotted the Focus button OR the dots I daresay your not informed enough to critique the board on the particular point I quoted you on.
But agreed. I won't de-rail the topic. Your post wasn't offensive so I wouldn't flag it, it was just misinformed.
My Question is:
Can you use this feat to gain an advanced rogue talent?