I would like to bounce an idea off you,
The Sleight of Hand skill has a set check against DC 20 to lift a small object of a target. I'm not a big fan of this rule since it doesn't matter what the item is or who the target it - the difficulty in taking it remains the same.
The APG has the Steal combat manoeuvre which pits your CMB vs. their CMD. It is a little more specific about what you can and can't steal and provides some modifiers for "well-secured" items and the like. It is, however, pretty darn similar to the Sleight of Hand ability.
So why not add them together?
What do you think about a system in which a person wanting to lift an item from another makes a Sleight of Hand check. This check result is put against the target's CMD to see if they can take the item but it is also measured against their Perception check to see if it is noticed.
This way, you can cover all the possibilities:
Pass both - Get the item and target doesn't know
Pass CMD, fail Perception - Get the item but they see you
Fail CMD, pass Perception - Don't get the item but they don't see you try
Fail both - Your in trouble and empty-handed.
I am wondering about the problems that may arise with putting a skill against CMD - the numbers might end up a little off that way. There may be other bugs that need to be worked out as well but that is why I am here
What do you think?
Acrobatics used to Tumble pits a skill vs CMD, so it's not unprecedented. I actually think it's a pretty good idea. I, however, wouldn't include the Perception check. Instead I'd do it something like this:
Pass - You have a new item!
Fail by <5 - You didn't get anything, but you were stealthy enough to not be caught
Fail by >5 - You get nothing and they noticed!
I would then add in situational modifiers for whether the target is in battle, is closely eying the thief, is blinded/deafened/otherwise impaired, etc. I'd suggest adjustments of +/-2, +/-5 and +/-10 from a decent list.
+1
Seems a simple fix to let the wary adventurers protect their purses, and reconciles Steal with SOH pickpocketing.
I would like to bounce an idea off you,
The Sleight of Hand skill has a set check against DC 20 to lift a small object of a target. I'm not a big fan of this rule since it doesn't matter what the item is or who the target it - the difficulty in taking it remains the same.
The APG has the Steal combat manoeuvre which pits your CMB vs. their CMD. It is a little more specific about what you can and can't steal and provides some modifiers for "well-secured" items and the like. It is, however, pretty darn similar to the Sleight of Hand ability.
So why not add them together?
What do you think about a system in which a person wanting to lift an item from another makes a Sleight of Hand check. This check result is put against the target's CMD to see if they can take the item but it is also measured against their Perception check to see if it is noticed.
This way, you can cover all the possibilities:
Pass both - Get the item and target doesn't know
Pass CMD, fail Perception - Get the item but they see you
Fail CMD, pass Perception - Don't get the item but they don't see you try
Fail both - Your in trouble and empty-handed.I am wondering about the problems that may arise with putting a skill against CMD - the numbers might end up a little off that way. There may be other bugs that need to be worked out as well but that is why I am here
What do you think?
I think it's a good idea, and may adopt it as a houserule.
I also think that its crap that the steal manuever as is uses combat manuever bonus... which uses strength nigh taking agile manuevers. I feel like this combat manuever could open up alot more possibilities for a rogue in combat if you instead just made Sleight of Hand the check instead of combat manuever bonus... I dont know why they didnt in the first place in my opinion. Makes skills more useful, rogues get a boost for sleight of hand, and it makes sense because how does performing a manuever with your strength and base attack make the oppponent not notice your steal manuever (the product of the greater steal).
What would the feats would help you do? perhaps still elimate the AoO and add the bonuses plus the sneaky move of not getting caught for the greater steal.
just my 2 cents.
Thanks for the responses!
I had forgotten about Acrobatics vs. CMD to tumble. I'm glad to see some precedent.
So with a little polish, what I plan on using is:
A Sleight of Hand check made against their CMD to see if can get the item. All the modifiers and rules listed under the Steal Manoeuvre apply.
The target makes a Perception check and it it beats the Sleight of Hand result, they notice the attempt.
If you do this during combat (or situations like combat, where the target is paying close attention, actively avoiding you, etc.), the Perception check automatically succeeds and they get an AoO against you.
The Improved Steal feat from the APG stays almost the same: you get a +2 and they don't get the AoO. The Perception check still automatically passes.
The Greater Steal feat stays almost the same as well: You get the second +2 but now, they do need to make the Perception check to notice the attempt.
I was also thinking of a further feat that lets you choose one Combat Manoeuvre (like disarm, trip) that masks your steal attempt. As in, whenever you steal (whether successful or not) the target believes you tried and failed at the other one.
Thoughts?
I've always liked having skills that can be applied in combat. Having Steal use SoH actually allows classes that are more likely to use it, Rogue or Monk, not suffer as much since their BAB ain't exactually great.