I think this is the right place to ask, if not I apologize.
I have got a few questions about druids and using Wild Shape that have come up recently.
First, when a druid uses Wild Shape to turn into an animal, what is he considered? Is he an "animal" or a "magical beast"? Or is he simply an intelligent animal?
This leads to my next question, when a druid that is Wild Shaped into an animal encounters an enemy with an Unnatural Aura, will they be able to approach, or do they have to make a check of some kind.
And this last one I am pretty sure doesn't work, but I'll ask anyway. If a druid with Wild on his armour, took a level of monk, would he be considered wearing his armour while Wild Shaped and thus not get the monk's AC Bonus?
I think this is the right place to ask, if not I apologize.
I have got a few questions about druids and using Wild Shape that have come up recently.
First, when a druid uses Wild Shape to turn into an animal, what is he considered? Is he an "animal" or a "magical beast"? Or is he simply an intelligent animal?
This leads to my next question, when a druid that is Wild Shaped into an animal encounters an enemy with an Unnatural Aura, will they be able to approach, or do they have to make a check of some kind.
And this last one I am pretty sure doesn't work, but I'll ask anyway. If a druid with Wild on his armour, took a level of monk, would he be considered wearing his armour while Wild Shaped and thus not get the monk's AC Bonus?
I couldn't find any place that this was spelled out, but I remember in 3.x you didn't change your type, just your form. So unless something has changed, the druid is still humanoid. So it should be no problem to approach someone with unnatural aura.
Yes, he would be considered armoured.
In pathfinder your "Type" does not change. So a Elf Druid wild-shaped into a bear is still considered "Humanoid" type as far as spell that effect or do not effect him.
It is listed some were under the polymorph rules section, listed before spells. ((to lazzy this morning to look up the page number :))
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First, when a druid uses Wild Shape to turn into an animal, what is he considered?
If a druid with Wild on his armour, took a level of monk, would he be considered wearing his armour while Wild Shaped and thus not get the monk's AC Bonus?
If a Human Druid wildshaped into a toad, he would be a Humanoid (Human) Toad. In other words, type doesn't change.
Monk only cares about worn armor, and melded armor is worn. You couldn't for instance Wild Shape into a monkey with a two rings (that meld away) then wear a third ring because you are already wearing one. So no, you would lose Monk abilities as a Wild Shaped toad with Wild Heavy Armor.
Awesome, thank you very much for the replys. Pretty much what I figured, but wanted some clearification.
It also ended up another question I had, about whether or not a wild shaped druid could have Animal Growth cast on it.
Sadly no, spells that affect size have no effect on creatures under polymorph spells, which includes druids in wildshape. You can find the rules on it in the magic section. Look for polymorph in the section called "spell descriptions".
From the description of the Polymorph subschool in the Magic section of the core rules:
"You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
However, one could argue that Wildshape is a Supernatural ability and not a Spell. Regardless, I assume they intended for it to apply to similar effects.
Your Right.... I am wrong.
Ya, think of it this way, when a Druid sees a magickal animal he dosnt run away if he dosnt want to, when he shape changes into an animal, he still has the mind of a Druid ie human or whatever, so why would he run if he wouldnt before... or not aproach or whatever... he still has his human/elf/whatever mind and not the animals :)
From the description of the Polymorph subschool in the Magic section of the core rules:
"You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
However, one could argue that Wildshape is a Supernatural ability and not a Spell. Regardless, I assume they intended for it to apply to similar effects.
I think it would be a tough sell considering that Wildshape is specifically mentioned as having the same properties. Another problem with that argument would be that in the description of Wildshape, it says that it operates as Beast Shape, or Elemental Shape, etc., "except as noted here", and the ability to size is not listed as an exception. Also, Animal Growth only affects animals, not humanoids (which Wildshaped Druid's still are). And finally... Animal Growth is a polymorph spell, not just a spell which changes size, which it specifically states can't be used at the same time as Wildshape.
So, yeah, the supernatural/spell-like distinction doesn't seem to be at play here.
Your Right.... I am wrong.
What were you wrong about? I don't see you having made any mistakes in this thread.
From the description of the Polymorph subschool in the Magic section of the core rules:
"You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."
However, one could argue that Wildshape is a Supernatural ability and not a Spell. Regardless, I assume they intended for it to apply to similar effects.
I think it would be a tough sell considering that Wildshape is specifically mentioned as having the same properties. Another problem with that argument would be that in the description of Wildshape, it says that it operates as Beast Shape, or Elemental Shape, etc., "except as noted here", and the ability to size is not listed as an exception. Also, Animal Growth only affects animals, not humanoids (which Wildshaped Druid's still are). And finally... Animal Growth is a polymorph spell, not just a spell which changes size, which it specifically states can't be used at the same time as Wildshape.
So, yeah, the supernatural/spell-like distinction doesn't seem to be at play here.
Actually, it is if we're talking about Enlarge Person. Animal Growth is definitely out since it only affects animals and it's clear that Wild Shape leaves your type alone. However Enlarge Person changes your size, and affects Humanoids. So the question is, is Wild Shape a Polymorph effect that prevents other size changes from taking effect (regardless if they came from another Polymorph spell or not), or is it just a Supernatural ability that happens to mimic a Polymorph spell.
I think we have evidence for the former however. In the APG we have the Animal Shaman druid variants, which include the Totem Transformation ability. Under that it states "This is a polymorph effect and cannot be used while the druid is using another polymorph effect, such as wild shape." So I think it's pretty clear that any restrictions on a polymorph will also apply to Wild Shape.
1 First, when a druid uses Wild Shape to turn into an animal, what is he considered? Is he an "animal" or a "magical beast"? Or is he simply an intelligent animal?
2 This leads to my next question, when a druid that is Wild Shaped into an animal encounters an enemy with an Unnatural Aura, will they be able to approach, or do they have to make a check of some kind.
3 If a druid with Wild on his armour, took a level of monk, would he be considered wearing his armour while Wild Shaped and thus not get the monk's AC Bonus?
1 As said before, wildshaped druids retain their original type. They won't be affected by spells and effects that target animals. They can be affected by spells and effects that target their own type. Additionally: "You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell." (from the online PRD). As written, this is useful against hamful polymorph spells and effects: when a polymorph spell targets a wildshaped druid, they can decide to ignore it completely. And if they aren't wildshaped at the time, they can use wildshape to cancel the harmful spell. The problem is to apply polymorph-related buffs and other beneficial spells to a wildshaped druid, something that isn't possible under the Rules As Written. Even though the wildshaped druid is a valid target for Enlarge Person, he can't benefit from both.
2 As said before, they keep their own type, and they keep their own mind. Wildshaped druids, like the other characters, aren't concerned by effects that apply only to animal-intelligence animals.
3 This is subject to interpretation. A wildshaped druid wearing armor isn't considered as wearing armor because their armor melds into their body and becomes non-functional. But the words used ("wearing armor") can direct people to the interpretation that the monk's AC bonus is lost. Personally, I allow the AC bonus. It's not as if the druid's wildshapes had a very high AC after all. I would also allow it when the druid wears a Wild armor, but that hasn't happened to my players yet, so I might change my mind if I see one having an AC dozens higher than their comrades.
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In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell
However, one could argue that Wildshape is a Supernatural ability and not a Spell. Regardless, I assume they intended for it to apply to similar effects.
They should have said Effects and not Spells in that section, because they do not mean to limit the scope to spells. But since it is discussed in the magic spells sections, it used "spell" instead.
There is another simpler reason, Animal Growth works on animals and a Wild Shaped Druid Toad is not an animal.