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Ok I know we still have a couple of weeks, but who's finished their Wondrous Items? Me me! lol I'm ready to get this puppy rolling! (and before I start getting the fatherly figures chiming in with "Well, make sure you keep refining your item and making it tight" I am. Every day I look at it and re-read it. so there :P)
Well let me be the first to say "Well, make sure you keep refining your item and making it tight."
That said, good luck, but more than good luck, make sure again that it does not break the rules, and unless it is a work of near divine awesomeness, does not fall into any of the common pit falls.
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Well let me be the first to say "Well, make sure you keep refining your item and making it tight."
That said, good luck, but more than good luck, make sure again that it does not break the rules, and unless it is a work of near divine awesomeness, does not fall into any of the common pit falls.
Well, I've read all of the 18 auto-rejects and looked at the previous years winners of round 1 and I think my item is pretty good. I've played RPGs for like 25+ years and have played as well as DMed, so I don't think my item is unbalancing. And I haven't seen anything like it, so I'm pretty psyched. :D Good luck to everyone!
My two-cents...
If you're "done" with your item early, I'd recommend that you NOT submit it on the first day. Why? Because sometimes, in the course of other people talking about design choices they faced or problem areas that concerned them...all without actually talking about their specific item, lest they disqualify themselves...sometimes...you pick up extra insight into stuff you hadn't considered when designing your item.
In addition, sometimes the judges make one extra comment or give you one extra piece of advice during the period when the submissions are starting to come in. Sometimes they do it by commenting on what they are or aren't seeing a lot of as they go through and sort items into the Keep and Reject piles. And sometimes they do it just by encouraging people.
As a competitor in 2009, I didn't want to miss out on that opportunity to learn one last little thing that might help my design. I knew that window existed, because I stuck around after I didn't make the 2008 competition and observed all the interaction on the messageboards.
Lastly, sometimes it's best to set your designs aside and don't come back to them (even to proofread or bask in the glow of your awesome creation) for awhile. How long is awhile? Maybe a week? Maybe a little longer. Basically, enough to get some distance from it so you can come back to it with completely fresh eyes before you actually do submit. I know I used this approach with my design. I finished it up early, took some time off from it, came back, and immediately saw some stuff I wanted to change to make it better.
But regardless of whether you heed any of this advice, certainly make every effort to submit your item WAY before the final deadline. Shoot for at least a couple of days early so you can make sure you don't get swallowed up by techinical problems and then fail to get it in on time. There's nothing Superstar about flirting with a late submission.
--Neil
Ok I know we still have a couple of weeks, but who's finished their Wondrous Items? Me me! lol I'm ready to get this puppy rolling! (and before I start getting the fatherly figures chiming in with "Well, make sure you keep refining your item and making it tight" I am. Every day I look at it and re-read it. so there :P)
What was your elimination process? I have many pages of concepts that could work and I can't decide which idea I would like to run with. Did you cross-check your item with experienced players to see if it would be useful? As we have been advised to not post our ideas on the forum for critique, what has been your method of refinement?
This would be my first time entering the competition and any advise would be greatly appreciated.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8
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My advice, take it as you will, is to give any concept you're "finished" with to someone else. Specifically, two someones: a person who understands the Pathfinder system and someone who doesn't roleplay. If they can both understand it, you've done well. They'll also catch all the things you'll miss: typos, bad grammar, missing words, etc.
Then submit it.
I've got my idea, and I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who hate it. :-)
Got mine too! The main fear is that coincidentally someone out there will submit the exact same thing and, you know, first come first served. We'll have to trust the judges will ignore the order and choose based on the other aspects of the item -- and from what I've seen, their suggestions are very honest and in line with previous year's winners -- they really do give a lot of weight to things other than the concept itself. My advice is, if you've tweaked your item to death, go back and re-read all the existing wondrous items from the Core Rulebook for clues on how to make it better. Maybe something will jump out at you. Let's remember, those are the ones that set the bar -- they actually made it to print. The anticipation is killer, I'll admit.
My advice is, if you've tweaked your item to death, go back and re-read all the existing wondrous items from the Core Rulebook for clues on how to make it better. Maybe something will jump out at you. Let's remember, those are the ones that set the bar -- they actually made it to print. The anticipation is killer, I'll admit.
Imho, those don't set the bar, they are way below it. Most of the items in the core book wouldn't stand a chance in this contest. This isn't about making an item that is crucial to the game or would "just" make it to print.
If you want to have a bar take the Top 32 from the last 3 Years. 96 items should be a big enough pool.The items in the core book are simply necessary for the game or staples of fantasy. In regards to creativity and inspiration they are "only" of common or uncommon quality.
What is contest is about is the rare quality however.
Keep in mind Paizo isn't searching for freelancers to write additions to a big book of items. They are searching for the new Rpg-design-Superstar. Someone with the creativity to create an great adventure choke full of the awesomeness, creativity, innovation and overall Spark that makes Pathfinder the great game it is.
To answer the original question: yes, I'm ready... with five different items, all in various stages of the refining/polishing process. Some have been around (in my notes) for months, some are based off spells I've created.
However, I fully agree with Neil's advice about waiting to submit, because every day I've read Paizo's board since the contest was announced, I've learned something I needed to know, something that helped me add a new twist to one of my items. I'd like to post some examples of my work (though definitely NOT the item I will eventually submit), perhaps some of my spells, but I fear this might cross the line.
And thanks to Azmahel for his advice, he's absolutely right about the level of "the bar" for this contest. I've been reading the "top 96" and they are all better than the core rule book's magic items.
Ready? [chuckle] Oh, no sirs, I am far from ready.
With that said, my Wondrous Item is undergoing constant editing and revision by anyone willing to read it and comment (that isn't involved in an entry themselves). My archetype is envisioned, but far from paper. My villain... well, I'm currently playing him in a game. My Golarion location is narrowed down to a region and a theme, but nothing specific yet, and my adventure runs in playback like a long-lost script for a smarter, better, grittier episode of the one fantasy anime I've ever seen and liked.
I ain't ready, but I'm hard at work and drawing closer every moment.
Imho, those don't set the bar, they are way below it. Most of the items in the core book wouldn't stand a chance in this contest. This isn't about making an item that is crucial to the game or would "just" make it to print. If you want to have a bar take the Top 32 from the last 3 Years. 96 items should be a big enough pool.
In the context of what I was saying, the Core Rulebook items don't set the bar for creativity, but for the other categories -- yes, the items submitted for the contest will be judged against them. For example, in the judges own words (I'm paraphrasing), if an existing items has "x" powers, and your item has "x+1" powers, but your item has a CL lower than the existing item = fail.
'sall i meant.
Oh, OK.
You mean a bar for balance. Yeah the Core Book items are pretty much *the* baseline for balancing and pricing.
But after all those two matters are secondary for a good submission. Don't make any obvious mistakes or blatant offenses and you should be fine.
Pricing is best determined by using the formulas for a rough ballpark , and then comparing the item to other items in that price category until you find a niche you are comfortable with. (never be cheaper than an item that does X , if you do X+1, or "somewhat X and Y too")
For caster level it's best to base it on the spells you used as a requirement. In most cases it should be high enough to cast all these Spells.
For effects that don't resemble spells either find a spell that fits at least thematically and do some guesswork whether the actual effect is more or less powerful than the spell and adjust the CL accordingly or find an item that does something similar, take their CL and again adjust.
If your items has multiple effects (beware the SAK) you should use the most powerful ability + 1.5 * less powerful abilities formula for price, but simply the maximum value for CL.
Rock out, baby. Rock out.
-Ben.
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7
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I just finished the first draft of my first item....thought I had it quite clear in my head what i wanted. wrote it down....and I do not even recognize it. When I first made up my mind to enter this contest a couple of ideas popped right out at me and I thought this would be really easy.....it is not.
Let me say this about refining your item concepts....Use the time allotted to you to get it done. Research the previous 96 winners and be sure before you submit.
I do not want to continually second guess myself....and I think my initial ideas are solid items worthy of at least consideration...but i will use my time to make sure I am happy with the final product.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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What was your elimination process?
FOrce yourself to be objective. If you have several items, a few of them excite you more than theothers. Assuming they don't fall into any auto-rejects and aren't only exciting because they are tailored for your style of play, then they are better. Narrow your search down to them.
Look at previous Wondrous Item rounds and be sure none of yours copy those. Take stock of magic items from other Pathfinder sourcebooks, and even 3.5 sourcebooks. You don't want any judges thinking "I've seen that before."
Year one, there was a mask that let you open your big mouth and swallow someone. I think it was initially approved and then DQed for word count. I immediately thought of the bite of the king spell from Libris Mortis, later added to the Spell Compendium. So I thought spell-in-a-can. Maybe not everyone has every source book (I know I don't), but I had seent eh effect already. Seems like I'd seen t soemwhere else, too, but I don't remember that now.
SO amke sure your items don't duplicate other magic items or spells, even if they aren't in PFRPG. Not only do you not want judges questioning your originality, but if you get past that round, you don't want voters round 2 thinking you're item has been done before.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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I have the item 'm giong to submit if something better doesn't happen. I like it a lot, but then I have liked every item I've submitted. So I want to be sure this bad boy is not "good but not great" again.
It's weirdly simple. I think that's what bugs me. Maybe that's good, or maybeit's too simple and I just don't see it yet.
It's weirdly simple. I think that's what bugs me. Maybe that's good, or maybeit's too simple and I just don't see it yet.
That's my favorite kind: it's simple and straightforward, so what imaginative uses can the PCs come up with to put it to?
I am near completion. Making rule adjustments and adding..."flavor." I just hope I do not sound like a lawyer with this item submission.
Mine is pretty much ready. I'm just hoping that it does not fall into this years commonly-occuring theme. I'm considering investing in a lead helmet this year to keep the thought snatchers at bay.
mines done and ready to go, well I HOPE IT IS. Ill be going over it again a few more times just to make sure....:)
As for the lead hat, my wife looked at me funny when I made a tin foil hat this morning....lol
Kidding...lol
I meant clear game rule mechanics when referring to myself as a lawyer. That way my item could avoid confusion, is it a command, single use or continuous ability? Or any confusion as to its mechanics whatsoever.
Finding how to price the baseline wondrous items already in the book is a cool way to get figure in your own item. I also love playing with numbers.
Boots of Teleportation:
5th level teleport spell, caster level 9, and is a command word.
Since it is not continuous and is used 3 times per day it uses the special division against the base price, 5/3 times per day = 1.666667 forever.
5 x 9 x 1,800= 81,000/ 1.666667 = 48,599.99. Not including cost to create leather boots to masterwork. Along with estimating up creates the 49,000 market price and 24,500 construction cost.
Its a good exercise to gain accuracy on pricing.
Mine is pretty much ready. I'm just hoping that it does not fall into this years commonly-occuring theme. I'm considering investing in a lead helmet this year to keep the thought snatchers at bay.
You're not the only one. Nothing is more frustrating than believing you have an awesome, original idea and later finding out that dozens of people thought of it too.
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Finding how to price the baseline wondrous items already in the book is a cool way to get figure in your own item. I also love playing with numbers.
Boots of Teleportation:
5th level teleport spell, caster level 9, and is a command word.
Since it is not continuous and is used 3 times per day it uses the special division against the base price, 5/3 times per day = 1.666667 forever.
5 x 9 x 1,800= 81,000/ 1.666667 = 48,599.99. Not including cost to create leather boots to masterwork. Along with estimating up creates the 49,000 market price and 24,500 construction cost.Its a good exercise to gain accuracy on pricing.
Holy crud. Didn't realize you needed a PHD to figure out costing of items. :P
Mine is pretty much ready. I'm just hoping that it does not fall into this years commonly-occuring theme. I'm considering investing in a lead helmet this year to keep the thought snatchers at bay.You're not the only one. Nothing is more frustrating than believing you have an awesome, original idea and later finding out that dozens of people thought of it too.
Last year I spent a few weeks trying to think up a unique item. No more than 2 hours after posting it, a similar item was mentioned on the boards as a harmless jest (by Neil Spicer no less). Something about tongues if I recall which was releated thematically to my item. Such is my luck.
It's a good thing my item did not make it past the first round or I'm sure there would have been comparisons and it would have been assumed that I drew inspiration from the comment.
Ok I know we still have a couple of weeks, but who's finished their Wondrous Items?
Another interesting question would be:"who has already finished his/her adventure proposal?"
Seriously, are there any people who have already completed their submission for the final round? Just curious.
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Holy crud. Didn't realize you needed a PHD to figure out costing of items. :PFinding how to price the baseline wondrous items already in the book is a cool way to get figure in your own item. I also love playing with numbers.
Boots of Teleportation:
5th level teleport spell, caster level 9, and is a command word.
Since it is not continuous and is used 3 times per day it uses the special division against the base price, 5/3 times per day = 1.666667 forever.
5 x 9 x 1,800= 81,000/ 1.666667 = 48,599.99. Not including cost to create leather boots to masterwork. Along with estimating up creates the 49,000 market price and 24,500 construction cost.Its a good exercise to gain accuracy on pricing.
It will really bake your noodle when you realize that the Helm of Teleportation does the exact same thing as the boots and costs 73,500gp. ;-)
I think thats a relic of "Slot affinity" that was there in 3.5 . Basically Slots where thematically linked to effects ( Boots being movement) and if your item occupied a slot that wasn't associated it did cost extra.
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I think thats a relic of "Slot affinity" that was there in 3.5 . Basically Slots where thematically linked to effects ( Boots being movement) and if your item occupied a slot that wasn't associated it did cost extra.
Agreed, that is what I figured the reasoning behind the increased price was. Just pointing it out because it could be confusing to those who were not familiar with that rule in 3.5 . Unless I've missed it, I can't see any reference to price increase for giving an item in the "wrong" slot abilities that were "inappropriate."
In the end though, item pricing is more art than science. Like it says right up front under Magic Item Gold Piece Values: "The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide."
Yes it is under slot affinities,pg. 288 of the DMG for Dungeons and Dragons 3.5. It calls for a 50% increase in cost if it does not fall under a normal affinity for the item slot. Also goggles of giant strength should never be considered. :)
I agree that it is an art. Bending rules in limited ways to make balanced items is hard enough as it is.
5 x 9 x 1,800 = 81,000 x .5 = 40,500 + 81,000 = 121,500/1.6667 = 72,899 +cost + estimate = :)
...my Wondrous Item is undergoing constant editing and revision by anyone willing to read it and comment...
I play in several games... but tonight is the bi-weekly campaign. The players are all at least my age and have all been playing for 20+ years. I'm taking a box of highlighters, a box of red pens, and 30 copies of the printout of my item for them to rip into, and I hope to come home caked in dried blood, deep bruises, and shame, but with unbelievably good edits.
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...my Wondrous Item is undergoing constant editing and revision by anyone willing to read it and comment...I play in several games... but tonight is the bi-weekly campaign. The players are all at least my age and have all been playing for 20+ years. I'm taking a box of highlighters, a box of red pens, and 30 copies of the printout of my item for them to rip into, and I hope to come home caked in dried blood, deep bruises, and shame, but with unbelievably good edits.
Just don't tell them what it's for or they'll steal your idea and submit it themselves. :P lol
Just don't tell them what it's for or they'll steal your idea and submit it themselves. :P lol...my Wondrous Item is undergoing constant editing and revision by anyone willing to read it and comment...I play in several games... but tonight is the bi-weekly campaign. The players are all at least my age and have all been playing for 20+ years. I'm taking a box of highlighters, a box of red pens, and 30 copies of the printout of my item for them to rip into, and I hope to come home caked in dried blood, deep bruises, and shame, but with unbelievably good edits.
Nahh, in our group, the simple pride issue of it would preclude such behavior, especially since everyone now knows what item is mine. If someone from our table got in with my item, I think all the others would lynch that said offender.
(BTW, the edits I got were really pretty good grammatical stuff as well as a requirement add-on I hadn't thought much about. Feeling great!)
Pretty in depth editing you've got there *That Old Guy*. I am awaiting my best friend to get back from Korea. My friend will give the item a bunch of test runs and my sister is an incredible English Major/ Nazi. I am a history major and have gone through and made sure to pick all of the mechanics to death.
I scratched 2 items in the course of my posts, I believe this current item is a winner.
So I have a dozen items I've come up with over the course of the past year. I've spent the past week eliminating the obvious non-contenders from that bunch; that took me down to about five. Logiced my way out of a couple of those; then just today got myself to the point where I was able to winnow the three remaining possible entries down to one. Just finished a couple of edits on the remaining item; it's down to a 300 word count exactly and has a rough price. Still a ways to go before it's completely set, and I KNOW I'm going to be second guessing the items I decided against nonstop all the way till I send it in (and then probably beyond...)but I think I'm relatively ready. Though I doubt I'm going to submit on the 3rd; I'm kind of thinking of waiting to submit on the same day and time I did last year. Just because I may as well inject SOME kind of superstition into this for myself.
Pretty in depth editing you've got there *That Old Guy*.
I want to make sure that I get it out there that I have absolutely zero excuses this year: I have a table full of some truly great minds (in 6 people, nearly 150 years of gaming experience) that cover all the gaming stereotypes, including our GM who says, "I don't really care what ruleset you make your character sheet with."
If my submission blows, it's because I wrote a crap item.Though I doubt I'm going to submit on the 3rd;
I am (not really) breaking out in hives to get this first round submission in and break the tension. I hate waiting.
Of course, on the day that I go to submit, there will be gibbering and drooling aplenty as the madness sets in and compels ever-worsening scrutiny... but I really do feel pretty good about this thing.
...I have absolutely zero excuses this year: I have a table full of some truly great minds (in 6 people, nearly 150 years of gaming experience) that cover all the gaming stereotypes, including our GM who says, "I don't really care what ruleset you make your character sheet with." If my submission blows, it's because I wrote a crap item.
A recommendation: Inasmuch as your group sounds totally awesome and the value of the experience, advice, and feedback of that many years of gaming cannot be denied...I'd also suggest you show your item to some folks who are NOT gamers at all. Or just describe the concept to them. See what they think of it. Find out what kind of questions it raises in their minds. You'll be surprised how much their points of view (i.e., people from outside the game) may differ from that of gaming veterans, thereby helping you refine your item that much more.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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Yes it is under slot affinities,pg. 288 of the DMG for Dungeons and Dragons 3.5. It calls for a 50% increase in cost if it does not fall under a normal affinity for the item slot. Also goggles of giant strength should never be considered. :)
"They don't make me stronger, they make everyone else look weaker!"
Seriously, slotted items are arguably easier to price. not saying they're safer just easier to figure out the non-gp costs. (i.e. the spoon of food or whatever it's called, doesn't X2 its price)
A recommendation: Inasmuch as your group sounds totally awesome and the value of the experience, advice, and feedback of that many years of gaming cannot be denied...I'd also suggest you show your item to some folks who are NOT gamers at all. Or just describe the concept to them. See what they think of it. Find out what kind of questions it raises in their minds. You'll be surprised how much their points of view (i.e., people from outside the game) may differ from that of gaming veterans, thereby helping you refine your item that much more.
Great suggestion, Neil. Unfortunately, I don't know any non-gamers that can read.
And yes, that was fun and it did feel good. Thank you. :)
I still have about 6 more items to write before I can decide which is my best.
Not surprisingly, I still think my first item is my best.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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I still have about 6 more items to write before I can decide which is my best.
Not surprisingly, I still think my first item is my best.
I protest the inclusion of anyone I have worked for in this contest. Not because there's any rightness to it, I just feel automatically inferior. : }
I actually came up with and statted out my item while asleep last night. I just had to write it down and get all the formating and stuff for it. I plan on thinking up other things as well and coming back to this one to make sure I wasn't crazy. Everyone I've told about it seems to really like it so far though.
+1 to Neil Spicer's two-cents.
+1 to James Martin's advice.
Since waiting is so hard, I would rather wait while I still have some control and not after (because once its in its in :)
I have several in second draft, and plan to submit on the solstice (solstices are good luck right :)