I had another 3.5 to Pathfinder assumption hiccup today as I was looking at the Celestial and Fiendish simple templates.
In 3.5, celestial and fiendish creatures are intelligent enough to understand common, so you can give them commands, even if the are celestial animals as the base template.
However, looking at the templates and exactly what changes in in templates, fiendish animals:
1. Remain animals. Their creature type doesn't change, although the summoning spells specifically mention magical beasts.
2. Do not change alignment. The simple template doesn't mention celestial or fiendish creature either gaining the good or evil subtype nor changing from neutral to good or evil. (The summon monster spell does note that the summoned creature has your alignment if marked with a *, but that doesn't have any bearing on a "naturally" encountered fiendish or celestial creature, or one summoned by a neutral caster)
3. Do not become more intelligent. This would mean that the only way to actually communicate with these creatures is with Speak with Animals in order to get them to do something other than randomly attack enemies undirected, barring using Handle Animal to push these creatures to do something else.
Also, regarding languages, I know in 3.5 an intelligent creature could understand common, but I don't find any "automatically knows common" rule in the Pathfinder rules. This would mean that any outsider, for example, that doesn't know common can only be commanded if the summoner has the creature's native language (which doesn't come into play for those outsiders with telepathy).
While I'm not against this, per se, it is a change from, "if its got an intelligence of 3 or more it understands common unless we say it doesn't."
So, after that long winded post, I'm sure I either missed something somewhere or this had already occurred to everyone except me. If I missed something, feel free to point it out to me, and if I didn't, feel free to point and laugh that it took me this long to realize these differences.
Page 16 of the Core Book in the description of Intelligence:
Any creature capable of understanding speech has a score
of at least 3.
So that should also mean that any creature of at least 3 intelligence would understand speech. Which language or languages they understand is another matter.
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1. Remain animals. Their creature type doesn't change, although the summoning spells specifically mention magical beasts.
Pretty much yeah.
2. Do not change alignment.
Hadn't really thought about it but I suppose.
3. Do not become more intelligent.
Yeah, summoned dogs are just dogs. How you as a GM handle this is up to you. I suspect most GMs just let their players use them as they see fit but they should be limited by animal intelligence.
This would mean that any outsider, for example, that doesn't know common can only be commanded if the summoner has the creature's native language (which doesn't come into play for those outsiders with telepathy).
I suspect most GMs handwave this but IMO it makes a lot of sense that if you want to summon a demon and have it serve you you should be able to communicate with it.
Page 16 of the Core Book in the description of Intelligence:
So that should also mean that any creature of at least 3 intelligence would understand speech. Which language or languages they understand is another matter.Any creature capable of understanding speech has a score
of at least 3.
That's actually a logical fallacy. To put it another way, your claim is equivalent to "Every type of apple is a fruit, therefore every fruit is a type of apple".
Summoning isn't just "I get extra actions" anymore. It requires skill investment and pre-planning. Note this text in the Summon Monster I entry: "If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." (Emphasis mine.) Communication is not guaranteed. If you want to summon intelligent beings, you need to invest in Linguistics to learn their languages. If you want to summon animals, you need to invest skill points in Handle Animal.
If you want to summon animals, you need to invest skill points in Handle Animal.
Or at least take Speak with Animals . . . ;)
So that should also mean that any creature of at least 3 intelligence would understand speech. Which language or languages they understand is another matter.
Oh, I get that they can know a language. I'm just pointing out that, for example, in 3.5, there was a blanket description in the MM that said that something with 3+ understood common on top of everything else, but isn't in the Bestiary.
Elementals, for example, with low intelligence are listed as knowing their elemental language. Without common listed, this would imply that they only know their elemental language (which actually makes more logical sense than 3.5's blanket ruling).
Huh... with the changes in protection from evil, that means fiendish animals can't be held at bay with the spell, even if they're summoned.
Huh... with the changes in protection from evil, that means fiendish animals can't be held at bay with the spell, even if they're summoned.
...if there wasn't specific spell wording to allow just that?
When you use a summoning spell to summon a creature with an alignment or elemental subtype, it is a spell of that type. Creatures on Table: Summon Monster marked with an "*" are summoned with the celestial template, if you are good, and the fiendish template, if you are evil. If you are neutral, you may choose which template to apply to the creature. Creatures marked with an "*" always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell's type match your alignment.
You only need language capability for versatility. Whether you can talk to it or not, you can send your summons against your enemies.1. Remain animals. Their creature type doesn't change, although the summoning spells specifically mention magical beasts.Pretty much yeah.
2. Do not change alignment.
Hadn't really thought about it but I suppose.3. Do not become more intelligent.
Yeah, summoned dogs are just dogs. How you as a GM handle this is up to you. I suspect most GMs just let their players use them as they see fit but they should be limited by animal intelligence.This would mean that any outsider, for example, that doesn't know common can only be commanded if the summoner has the creature's native language (which doesn't come into play for those outsiders with telepathy).
I suspect most GMs handwave this but IMO it makes a lot of sense that if you want to summon a demon and have it serve you you should be able to communicate with it.
"Versatility" in this case includes directing them against specific enemies. Otherwise, they just attack whichever enemy they want.
...if there wasn't specific spell wording to allow just that?
Well isn't that just the point. If you are neutral, so is your creatures, and the protection doesn't matter.