As a huge Paizo fan I would like to just weigh in on some of my thoughts about the on going adventure path series. Rise of the Runelords stands as the quintesential path. It a word, it was AWESOME. Set in Varisia, it gave us our first taste of Golarion and we hungered for more. Whether its nostalgia or great content, Thassilon and Runelord material remain my favorite of all the areas of Golarion. Curse of the Crimson Throne continued do the path of excellent material and a great storyline. There were some Thassilonian ruins thrown in and the Shoanti spotlight was terrific. Second Darkness was the first AP I realized I would never run, it had some great moments but overall, the story failed to wow. It's saving grace is that it was set in Varisia giving more background. Legacy of Fire was a bit of a disappointment. Again, the story wasn't all that interesting but it still had great content and was well done. Council of Thieves lost me. I guess in my own games I had grown tired of devils and Cheliax interests me not at all. The mateial on the hell knigts was awesome though and the installment where the characters where in the play from hell was terrific. All in all, I didn't much care for it.
Then came Kingmaker and in my opinion, it reset the standards. The whole affair was so well done and the idea of building your kingdom was just plain genius. And now, we are into Serpents Skull. Once again I can't wait to get the next enstallment. As a player of I would love to play in this AP. The race to discover a lost city against competing factions, ancient snake cults, and a sandbox ruin to explore. I can't wait to see how it all plays out and am sad that I will never experience the awesome content as a player. Oh well. My only suggestion overall is a return to Varisia and some muldering Runelord action. Keep up the great work Paizo. You will continue to bleed my paycheck with your gaming goodness.
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An interesting take on the APs. I also loved Rise of the Runelords for the overall flavor and introduction to a very exciting world, but I found parts of it a problem to run. I omitted books 2 and 3 because the content was too dark and also didn't reallly advance my players' excitement over the Thassilonian mythos. I substituted some stuff of my own and borrowed from Ptolus to get my PCs ready for book 4.
We actually had a great time with Second Darkness. We played the whole thing from start to finish, and my players were really invested in the story of the drow origins and the war between the elves and the drow. Granted, there were some difficult sections to run and I had to put more time in for prep than on any other published adventure I've run.
Legacy of Fire is proving a bit tough to run. I can't seem to get my players to really absorb the story. I keep giving them way more information than their Knowledge rolls should allow just to keep them involved and informed. Oh well... It's a great story when you're the DM reading it, but the main story is so far in the background that my players are having a hard time finding how they fit in.
Anyway, I just wanted to say: Don't give up on Second Darkness. You might love it.
As a huge Paizo fan I would like to just weigh in on some of my thoughts about the on going adventure path series.
I pretty much agree. The interesting thing is, from the few other threads similar to this one, so does everyone else. I'm actually really surprised that there seems to be such a consensus on how the APs rank. I mean almost everyone has their little quirk, they did not like AP X or like AP Y more then most but it seems like if you factored out everyone's little quirk we'd pretty much line them up in the same order.
My little quirk is that I don't really like Rise of the Runelords all that much. I like each individual adventure alright but the overriding plotline does not do all that much for me...maybe because I run in a home brew and the Rune Lords are so plot potent that they can't really be used as they are outside of Golorion. You can say 'was once bad mage dude' but its not the same as 'ended one of the ages of civilization and ushered in a dark age that lasted thousands of years' unless your personal campaigns background fluff accommodates and mine does not really.
I have a whole bunch of AP's - which I've read through, but have only run experience of Legacy of Fire which is halfway through.
I really like LoF, there are a couple of problem hooks mid point ish, but otherwise the environment and stuff to do is really good. My players were completely blown away by the first in the set HotCK and loved the setup.
As for the background story - my players by and large are hopeless at knowledge tasks and have missed almost all of the background going on - but I think part of the clever design here is that it doesn't matter - you have different smaller scale goals, and very slowly ( or more quickly if you are a knowledge master ) you are drawn into a wider deeper conflict that goes way beyond your initial small end points. Without even realising it you find yourself in the middle of something - perfect plotting in my opinion.
In fact, with a very slow drip feed of information, I have found it heightens the suspense when players realise they have heard a name before - whats the connection, without really knowing much more. Foreshadowing in this AP is just awesome and never fails to hit home. Depends on your players I guess.
On the other hand, Council of Thieves, I think is a neat idea, but I just know my players will be turned off at certain points - the theatre play for instance. I like the concept, but it needs a certain type of player I think.
Thats not to take anything away - I like that Paizo are clearly experimenting with the format and pushing boundaries. You get ups and downs, but its the only way to really improve.
I think what I'm taking away from this is your experience with APs is going to be quite different based on the people you're playing with. Which of course is true for roleplaying in general, so I suppose that's not a surprise. I'm midway through running Council of Thieves right now and it's been an absolute blast, the players have really gotten invested in Westcrown and the NPCs (as well as alot of other NPCs I've had to make up for them). I've been able to keep a very sandboxy feel to the game, and generally let people do what they want without killing the mods, which is really neat, and it's been very easy to write engaging sidequests for them. We had an abortive RotR game a long while back, people just weren't interested, though I've recently started another shot at it as a player, so we'll see.
Looking through other APs, I think my group would really dig Kingmaker, and that may be next on my plate. I expect they'd lose interest in Second Darkness midway through, but I've been in groups that would absolutely love it. The APs in general seem to succeed quite admirably in giving something for everybody. I'm looking forward to Carrion Crown as well, I think I can get my players interested in some gothic horror pretty quickly.
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I like that Paizo are clearly experimenting with the format and pushing boundaries. You get ups and downs, but its the only way to really improve.
Just like that big red dog...B I N G O....8)
They are creating different style APs. If they were basically all the same then it would have stagnated by now.
Personally i love 'em just like everyone else. I, unfortunately, have only played in 2 (right now going through RotRL and SD right now in seperate campaigns)and I tried to run RotRL twice but the campaign faltered through outside forces.
We may be starting CotCT in a third campaign soon (if the lazy Dm will get off his butt) and I am considering stopping my 4e game (not happy with that company for various reasons) and may take up an AP myself (Kingmaker or CoT).
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In fact, with a very slow drip feed of information, I have found it heightens the suspense when players realise they have heard a name before - whats the connection, without really knowing much more. Foreshadowing in this AP is just awesome and never fails to hit home. Depends on your players I guess.
On the other hand, Council of Thieves, I think is a neat idea, but I just know my players will be turned off at certain points - the theatre play for instance. I like the concept, but it needs a certain type of player I think.
Thats not to take anything away - I like that Paizo are clearly experimenting with the format and pushing boundaries. You get ups and downs, but its the only way to really improve.
That's what my players love about CoT. The building of the story with reoccurring names and villains. They unlike Jubbly's group loved the play.
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RotRL - hamburgers, cool !
CotCT - pizza, my favourite. YAY !
SD - dried fish with banana sauce, the hell they were thinking !
LoF - shish-kebab, cool ! But not everybody likes those !
CoT - this dish is so-so, but the salad rocks. Also, too small !
KM - it's a barrel of mixed strange things, but they do smell tasty !
SS - ask me when it's over !
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RotRL - Ran it. Liked the iconic flavor but the story line is a bit jumbled. I would run it again but of course there are more APs than I can run so may never get the chance.
CotCT - Just finishing this one up and making decisions whether to continue the campaign for a couple of months cleaning things up in the aftermath. My favorite of the APs I have run or played so far. I think it would have been stronger if the group did not need to leave the city but it is an excellent AP.
SD - We gave this a shot. We had a TPK (actually two) and the group was not really working together through most of this AP. We just could not continue. I might give this another try with a different group one of these days. I liked it but we had some bad luck. One of the things that caused problems was the group did not have a good mix of characters. Too many support characters and not enough big guns. Those choices made it really tough on them.
LoF - Playing in this one now and I like it. I think it is going fairly well but after reading the above I would say our group has no clue about the larger storyline.
CoT - I started this as a player but had some stuff with the DM and decided to bow out after the first session. A couple sessions after I left the group the had a TPK and did not continue. It was during the first chapter so it never really got going. This had a lot to do with the DM not being happy with the AP and a group that could not work well together. Funny there is one player common to the two groups (CoT and SD) that did not do well together.
KM - Do not know anything about this AP but will probably play or run it one day.
SS - I am just getting ready to run this AP with the group that is finishing up Crimson Throne. What I have seen so far (I admit not much) I think I like this AP. One interesting note is that James said that both Crimson Throne and Serpent Skull both came from his home game and of the published APs I think they are my favorites so far.
CC - Even though this does not get published until February I am already excited about it. I love gothic horror (Holy Ravenloft Batman). I almost chose to keep the Crimson Throne crew involved in clear up details until the first chapter of this one was released so I could run this rather than SS but I will run this one next most likely.
I may even start a new group to run this one sooner rather than later.
Can't wait to see what is next (August).
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Can't wait to see what is next (August).Jade Regent. An adventure path that starts in Sandpoint but then heads north, over the Crown of the World, and ends up spending its second half in Tian Xia.
I hope some of the starting PCs will be able to be from Tian Xia and get some campaign traits to match.
Creative Director
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I hope some of the starting PCs will be able to be from Tian Xia and get some campaign traits to match.Can't wait to see what is next (August).Jade Regent. An adventure path that starts in Sandpoint but then heads north, over the Crown of the World, and ends up spending its second half in Tian Xia.
Jade Regent assumes that the PCs are all locals who are associates or friends or relations to Ameiko Kaijitsu, a key NPC in the town of Sandpoint. Whether the PCs are Tien or Taldan or Chelaxian or Vudran or Mwangi or whatever doesn't really matter, although the AP will work better if the PCs are traveling to Tian Xia for the first time rather than returning back to it, since the PLAYERS are likely to be experiencing Tian Xia for the first time, after all.
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Can't wait to see what is next (August).Jade Regent. An adventure path that starts in Sandpoint but then heads north, over the Crown of the World, and ends up spending its second half in Tian Xia.
How much time will pass between this and Rise of the Runelords? Is it considered real time as Adventure Paths come out?
I'm only asking because one of my Varisian Sorcerers had Aasimar twins (long story) and I'm curious if them Coming of Age and starting their own adventure from Sandpoint would fit.
As to the main theme, I agree with the OP.
Rise of the Runelords is classic.
Curse of the Crimson Throne only a half step below.
Second Darkness had some wonderful parts (Children of the Void is one of my all time favorites), but didn't hold me throughout.
Legacy of Fire was very strong stuff.
Council of Thieves was like Second Darkness to me, spots shined and others...meh...
Kingmaker was very different, but great in it's own sandbox kind of way.
Really liking Serpent's Skull and I can't want for Eando's return, as that journal was by far the best.
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Creative Director
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Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
None of this means Jade Regent HAS to be a sequel to Rise of the Runelords.
We WILL have a few paragraphs in the first adventure that addresses this, though, presenting advice on not only how you can run Jade Regent after Rise of the Runelords, but also how you can run Jade Regent BEFORE Rise of the Runelords.
PCs playing the children of previous PCs should work pretty well, though.
We do not assume that the adventure paths themselves happen in real time. Kingmaker, after all, could last for decades, even though it only took six months or so to get it all in print.
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Creative Director
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Uh actually Shalue from rise of the runelords is in second darkness.Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
HA! Well played!
(And since we're correcting mistakes, it's "Shalelu." And since we're on the subject, she's probably gonna be showing up again in Jade Regent as well!)
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Uh actually Shalue from rise of the runelords is in second darkness.Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
HA! Well played!
(And since we're correcting mistakes, it's "Shalelu." And since we're on the subject, she's probably gonna be showing up again in Jade Regent as well!)
Major character or fairly minor?
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Major character or fairly minor?Uh actually Shalue from rise of the runelords is in second darkness.Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
HA! Well played!
(And since we're correcting mistakes, it's "Shalelu." And since we're on the subject, she's probably gonna be showing up again in Jade Regent as well!)
If it is anything like my groups, then major. I as the GM of RotRL and as a player in SD, Both times the boys fought over her. :)
If I end up running JR with the same group I might be tempted to make her a les to torment the boys. :D
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Creative Director
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Major character or fairly minor?Uh actually Shalue from rise of the runelords is in second darkness.Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
HA! Well played!
(And since we're correcting mistakes, it's "Shalelu." And since we're on the subject, she's probably gonna be showing up again in Jade Regent as well!)
Dunno yet. Haven't really started even outlining Jade Regent yet. That'll probably happen sometime next week. But I'm leaning toward her having a fairly major role.
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Contributor
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Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
None of this means Jade Regent HAS to be a sequel to Rise of the Runelords.
We WILL have a few paragraphs in the first adventure that addresses this, though, presenting advice on not only how you can run Jade Regent after Rise of the Runelords, but also how you can run Jade Regent BEFORE Rise of the Runelords.
PCs playing the children of previous PCs should work pretty well, though.
We do not assume that the adventure paths themselves happen in real time. Kingmaker, after all, could last for decades, even though it only took six months or so to get it all in print.
I would think that Jade Regent might actually work better as a prequel to Rise of the Runelords. Wouldn't preceding the events of Burnt Offerings give the PCs more options for Tien NPCs with whom they could interact before departing for Tian Xia?
Dunno yet. Haven't really started even outlining Jade Regent yet. That'll probably happen sometime next week. But I'm leaning toward her having a fairly major role.Major character or fairly minor?Uh actually Shalue from rise of the runelords is in second darkness.Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
HA! Well played!
(And since we're correcting mistakes, it's "Shalelu." And since we're on the subject, she's probably gonna be showing up again in Jade Regent as well!)
When in doubt: let her be PCable. I know it doesn't work for all groups, but mine tend to be more "let us be inside the story" folks. For example, I let them play as Almah in Legacy of Fire. Felt better than "generic slaves."
:-D
Hey folks... Long time no see...
With Paizo's sale on, I'm considering picking up another adventure path. So far, I've got Shackled City and Rise of the Runelords, neither of which I've run yet, but have read and am in the process of preparing for running. I, at least in theory, really like both paths, and don't foresee any problems running them. I picked up Leacy of Fire the last time on PDF, but haven't read through it all yet, but out of the choices at the time (we play 3.AotrsCommander, rather than PF) it appealed to me the most because of the the old Desert of Desolation sort of feel (which is something else I have to run at some point!)
So, currently, having looked at Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness, I'm not sure which is the best bet, particularly as they seem a bit group dependant. So, which out of the two would you recommend, given that my group:
1) Don't really mind being railroaded if necessary
2) Are highly skilled overall in both optimisation and teamwork (plus the module will 90% likely to be run for six characters with the appropriate monster additions anyway)
3) Fall closer to the hack-y side than the not-quite-as-hack-y side (though by no means are just hack-and-slashers!)
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Dunno yet. Haven't really started even outlining Jade Regent yet. That'll probably happen sometime next week. But I'm leaning toward her having a fairly major role.Major character or fairly minor?Uh actually Shalue from rise of the runelords is in second darkness.Jade Regent will indeed be the first AP to revisit a location that a previous AP took place in. It's also the first AP to revisit an NPC that appeared in another AP.
HA! Well played!
(And since we're correcting mistakes, it's "Shalelu." And since we're on the subject, she's probably gonna be showing up again in Jade Regent as well!)
May I humbly suggest having her as a guide or some such?
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So, currently, having looked at Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness, I'm not sure which is the best bet, particularly as they seem a bit group dependant. So, which out of the two would you recommend, given that my group:
I would recommend Crimson Throne.
Just be prepared to:
Convert the path to PF if wanted (tho there is lots of help on the boards)
Stress to the players the connection their characters should have to Korvosa
Make sure they know when the hack'n'slash is inappropriate.
I've been running this AP, and my group loves it.
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So, currently, having looked at Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness, I'm not sure which is the best bet, particularly as they seem a bit group dependant. So, which out of the two would you recommend, given that my group:
I would recommend Crimson Throne.
Just be prepared to:
Convert the path to PF if wanted (tho there is lots of help on the boards)
Stress to the players the connection their characters should have to Korvosa
Make sure they know when the hack'n'slash is inappropriate.I've been running this AP, and my group loves it.
I would agree entirely. There are three points to bear in mind though.
1) Parts 4 and 5 stray from the city which can annoy players who have really invested in Korvosa. PArt 4 is also very much a MacGuffin chase.
2) Part 5 will fulfill their hack and slash dreams for ages to come. It's a mega-undead dungeon. I had the misfortune to go throguh it with a party with an undead hunting ranger, a paladin adn a cleric of Iomedae. Undead did not last long against thisd party.
3) The last adventure talks a lot about the revolution, but has very littile in it to actually participate. I recommend preparing some encounters ahead of time (a raid to rescue the loyal Gray Maidens from their prison which I threw in REALLY went well).
But those don't sound like they'd be a problem for your party.
Thanks for the input, I'll have to bear it in mind for the future.
Had to shelve the idea for the moment, though, since I worked out even with Paizo's *excellent* deal, by the time I'd added international shipping and UK Customs import charges *sigh*, it turned out it was still £10-20 more expensive than the buying full-price PDFs! So, maybe another time. (Not like with three adventure paths on standby, plus what equates to about another two in AD&D modules, I'm not exactly *short* of stuff at the moment!)
Which Adventure Path would work best for a small (3 person) group?
Many thanks for the advice...
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Which Adventure Path would work best for a small (3 person) group?
Many thanks for the advice...
Well...
I would say your best bet is one of the early ones, as the 3.5 fights are slightly somewhat under CR'ed vs Pathfinder.
That being said, there are a lot of potential TPK issues for a small party, so be careful.
Personally, I loved Rise of the Runelords.
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Can't wait to see what is next (August).Jade Regent. An adventure path that starts in Sandpoint but then heads north, over the Crown of the World, and ends up spending its second half in Tian Xia.
Thanks James. I have been waiting for this one since it was first talked about. I am excited about the Tian Xia material.