-Hungry Ghost Monk Variant from pathfinder, mostly for flavor, with the ability to knock prone, and on kills steal ki, and/or steal hp
it loses stunning fist,
-Take Stunning fist as a feat, since you traded it for the ability to knock prone. If you could pick and choose parts of variants we wouldnt have to do this, but an alternate class feature set isnt modular. Anyway stunning is pretty important to this build so anything that ups the save on that is key.
-Rapid Stunning is important, so you can extend the duration of your stun by more than one round through Multiple Attempts, and Pharaoh Fist (sandstorm) makes it effect adjacent targets, so if you use it once on one guy with one attack, and once on the guy beside him with a second attack, they are both stunned twice, with the chance to extend the duration of both. Also, other feats like Ability Focus: Stunning Fist will be needed.
-Youll want a Ki-Focus Scythe asap, as ki focus will let you flurry with it. with the +1 and the ki focus ability, itll be the price of a +2 weapon. We want the scythe for its critical.
-Dastardly Finish: this is where the build comes together. This is a feat from Pathfinders advanced players guide that lets you Coup De Grace Stunned or Shaken Opponents. Death Blow from the Players Handbook two lets you Coup De Grace opponents as a standard action. Since CDG is nothing but an autocrit with a save vs damage dealt, a high critical multiplier weapon is key, hence the scythe with its x4. Plus, more attacks means more chances to critical, and when it comes to attacks, monks have the most.
This Build has a LOT of problems, i know. One is that its a MONK BUILD, and another is that it depends on the target failing a fortitude save, which at high levels is laughable. Also, it depends too heavily on a single weapon, but i suppose that it isnt necessary to have a Scythe, its just flavorful with Hungry Ghost monk and the Coup De Grace motief.
Another problem i am having is that i had visualized this as a Lawful Evil build, and MOST of the feats or prestige classes or whatever that enhance your stunning fist also require you to be GOOD. For example: Touch of Golden Ice (BoED): Evil enemies hit with unarmed or natural attacks must Save (DC 14 Fort) or take 1d6 Dex damage. Lowering Dexterity would be a great way to get CDG, but that dc 14 save and good requirement are both rough on the build.
PRC'S
Reapers Child from Dragon 299 was what i was originally trying to build, and a one level dip into it would let me flurry with a scythe. The least level of it gives you a death effect, so thats fun too, but overall i think i could do without the class. Maybe kensai? Assassin? Are there any good monk prc's that advance flurry, or enhance stunning but aso give you something that would help with Coup De Grace?
Anyway, any suggestions on how to help this build out?
Taken as a regular feat Stunning Fist requires a BAB of +8 and can only be used once per four levels. So not only can't you take it until 9th level, but even at twentieth level you're only able to use it five times.
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Taken as a regular feat Stunning Fist requires a BAB of +8 and can only be used once per four levels. So not only can't you take it until 9th level, but even at twentieth level you're only able to use it five times.
Not entirely true. While the monk would have to wait until level 11 to get stunning fist, the wording of the feat is:
"Special: A monk receives Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A monk may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk."
I don't believe the two sentences are related, so by RAW a monk would be able to stunning fist 11 times.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Taken as a regular feat Stunning Fist requires a BAB of +8 and can only be used once per four levels. So not only can't you take it until 9th level, but even at twentieth level you're only able to use it five times.Not entirely true. While the monk would have to wait until level 11 to get stunning fist, the wording of the feat is:
"Special: A monk receives Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
A monk may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk."I don't believe the two sentences are related, so by RAW a monk would be able to stunning fist 11 times.
I changed your bolding to help with this interpretation....
If the monk recieves Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at first level, he does not need to meet the prerequisites.
If the monk does NOT receive Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at first level, he DOES need to meet the prerequisites.
The Hungry Ghost monk gets a different ability that replaces Stunning Fist...and therefore, must wait until he meets the prerequisites in order to take the feat regularly.
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While I understand your thoughts on the matter, I don't think that's correct. The two sentences are not necessarily linked, so I would not link them. The monk still will not receive the feat until he fulfills the prerequisites, and following that I see no reason why he can't use it the way the special portion is written.
+1 to Doc Cosmic
Here comes the genre of the player I hate most when I DM : THE POWER GAMER
Mergy i think you are one of them, so beware the Order Of The Anti-PGs because they are bloodthirsty beasts who will annihilate this Power Gaming Cult, and everyone else with it will be burned and thrown to the Pit Of Munchkins
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+1 to Doc Cosmic
Here comes the genre of the player I hate most when I DM : THE POWER GAMER
Mergy i think you are one of them, so beware the Order Of The Anti-PGs because they are bloodthirsty beasts who will annihilate this Power Gaming Cult, and everyone else with it will be burned and thrown to the Pit Of Munchkins
Please cut the insults. I'm giving my interpretation of the rules as they're laid out in the core rulebook and APG. What you think of me based on a few of my posts is at best jumping to conclusions, and at worst slander. If your post was in jest, it wasn't funny.
In any case, I'm interested in hearing the official point of view on the matter, so I've clicked the FAQ button.
As I stated before, the monk would have to wait until level 11 to use stunning fist. I hardly think that's being a munchkin.
Taken as a regular feat Stunning Fist requires a BAB of +8 and can only be used once per four levels. So not only can't you take it until 9th level, but even at twentieth level you're only able to use it five times.Not entirely true. While the monk would have to wait until level 11 to get stunning fist, the wording of the feat is:
"Special: A monk receives Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
A monk may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk."I don't believe the two sentences are related, so by RAW a monk would be able to stunning fist 11 times.
I changed your bolding to help with this interpretation....
If the monk recieves Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at first level, he does not need to meet the prerequisites.
If the monk does NOT receive Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at first level, he DOES need to meet the prerequisites.
The Hungry Ghost monk gets a different ability that replaces Stunning Fist...and therefore, must wait until he meets the prerequisites in order to take the feat regularly.
I hate to admit it, but he might be right. If you check the Elemental Fist and Punishing Kick feats they both say,
"A Monk of the Four Winds/Hungry Fist receives...as a bonus feat at first level."
But both go on to say,
"A monk may attempt...a number of times a day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk."
While both specify that only the FW and HF monks receive the feats as bonus feats, both also fail to specify that only FW and HF monks can use them per monk level.
Barring a complete denial from Paizo, I'd probably have to allow Stunning fist the same way.
So Mergy, just so I understand your position....
You believe that any monk should be able to take any and all special monk manuevers at first level merely because it says what it does in the "specials"?
So, I can have a first level human monk with Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, and Touch of Serenity?
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So Mergy, just so I understand your position....
You believe that any monk should be able to take any and all special monk manuevers at first level merely because it says what it does in the "specials"?
So, I can have a first level human monk with Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, and Touch of Serenity?
You misunderstand me completely. It's almost like you're trying to start an argument.
A hungry ghost monk does not receive Stunning Fist at first level; instead, they get Punishing Kick, which he can use once per monk level. If the hungry ghost monk were to level up to level 11, therefore having a BAB of +8, he would be eligible to take Stunning Fist as his level 11 feat. He would, however, be able to use it once per monk level, as any monk can.
I don't believe I stated anywhere that a monk should receive Stunning Fist despite Stunning Fist being replaced at first level. In fact, I said that the two Special sentences were not necessarily connected.
There's a lot of things one could intuit by reading RAW a certain way, this is one I would not normally go with, but it's your game. If you are the DM or the DM is down with such an interpretation, have at it.
So Mergy, just so I understand your position....
You believe that any monk should be able to take any and all special monk manuevers at first level merely because it says what it does in the "specials"?
So, I can have a first level human monk with Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, and Touch of Serenity?
You misunderstand me completely. It's almost like you're trying to start an argument.
A hungry ghost monk does not receive Stunning Fist at first level; instead, they get Punishing Kick, which he can use once per monk level. If the hungry ghost monk were to level up to level 11, therefore having a BAB of +8, he would be eligible to take Stunning Fist as his level 11 feat. He would, however, be able to use it once per monk level, as any monk can.
I don't believe I stated anywhere that a monk should receive Stunning Fist despite Stunning Fist being replaced at first level. In fact, I said that the two Special sentences were not necessarily connected.
Ok...calm down, no reason to get confrontational or emotional. I did misunderstand you, and I thought I was misunderstanding you, which is why I asked a clarifying question. It was not meant as an insult, nor as an inflammatory comment.
Now, that I fully understand your comment, I am in complete agreement with you.
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So Mergy, just so I understand your position....
You believe that any monk should be able to take any and all special monk manuevers at first level merely because it says what it does in the "specials"?
So, I can have a first level human monk with Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, and Touch of Serenity?
You misunderstand me completely. It's almost like you're trying to start an argument.
A hungry ghost monk does not receive Stunning Fist at first level; instead, they get Punishing Kick, which he can use once per monk level. If the hungry ghost monk were to level up to level 11, therefore having a BAB of +8, he would be eligible to take Stunning Fist as his level 11 feat. He would, however, be able to use it once per monk level, as any monk can.
I don't believe I stated anywhere that a monk should receive Stunning Fist despite Stunning Fist being replaced at first level. In fact, I said that the two Special sentences were not necessarily connected.
Ok...calm down, no reason to get confrontational or emotional. I did misunderstand you, and I thought I was misunderstanding you, which is why I asked a clarifying question. It was not meant as an insult, nor as an inflammatory comment.
Now, that I fully understand your comment, I am in complete agreement with you.
I wasn't insulted at your comment; it was the one accusing me of munchkining that had me upset.
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A question then, My level 13 monk has stunning fist punishing kick and touch of serenity. Each states they can only be used once per round. Can I use all 3 in the same round however. By RAW I think I can but it seems like this could cause a lot of issues if a monk gets a lot of these feats and flurries. I would like to ask if these should be exclusively one of them every round instead of each once per round?
A question then, My level 13 monk has stunning fist punishing kick and touch of serenity. Each states they can only be used once per round. Can I use all 3 in the same round however. By RAW I think I can but it seems like this could cause a lot of issues if a monk gets a lot of these feats and flurries. I would like to ask if these should be exclusively one of them every round instead of each once per round?
No. When you use Stunning Fist it becomes a SPECIAL attack action (requiring a standard action). The same is true of Punishing Kick and of Touch of Serenity. You only get one standard action per round, and must therefore choose which of these effects you wish to use.
I wasn't insulted at your comment; it was the one accusing me of munchkining that had me upset.
That wasn't me, that was Wild Captain
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I wasn't insulted at your comment; it was the one accusing me of munchkining that had me upset.That wasn't me, that was Wild Captain
I know, I was just still in a mood.
No. When you use Stunning Fist it becomes a SPECIAL attack action (requiring a standard action). The same is true of Punishing Kick and of Touch of Serenity. You only get one standard action per round, and must therefore choose which of these effects you wish to use.
I'm pretty sure you can use stunning fist as part of a flurry of blows. It's not like vital strike, which starts with "When you use the attack action". Stunning Fist reads "You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll". Just because someone is making an attack roll does not mean it's a standard action. A monk makes an attack roll several times during a flurry of blows, and before one of his attacks, he could say "I'm stunning him."
Further evidence to this interpretation is further in Stunning Fist's text: "You may attempt a stunning attack... no more than once per round." This bit of text seems superfluous if to use Stunning Fist is a standard action; it's very difficult to get more than one standard action in a round.
First: I have no idea why i even mention dastardly finish, it requires 5d6 sneak attack to get and im POSITIVE i was thinking about Freezing the Lifeblood, which causes paralysis with a similar mechanic to Stunning fist.
Since the "paralyzed" Coupe De Grace angle seems to be a lot harder to accomplish than i had thought, Does anyone have any suggestions for how to optimize the concept of a SCYTHE monk? Is it just silly and something i shouldnt bother trying? Does anything synergize well with Hungry Ghost that im not thinking of?
everything correct
So yeah, I apparantely was mixing up Vital Strike and Cleave and adding their mechanics to Stunning Fist et al. I really haven't played a monk yet, I am waiting for Paizo to release an Enlightened Fist type monk/caster hybrid to really start playing around with the monk class.
Oh my fault really sry Mergy, I thought you meant the monk had quilified for all these feats from first lvl like Doc Cosmic did. Again I apologize.
For the stunning fist (and all similar abilities): to use them is not a standard action as correctly Mergy quoted.
As for the scythe-monk if your DM allows 3.x stuff there is a f*~+ing awesome(a little OP)5 level prestige class for monks that specializes in scythes but i cant remember the name .... Also there is Death Incarnate, Whirling Reaper and Acolyte of the Scythe, all very good prestige classes.
As for the scythe-monk if your DM allows 3.x stuff there is a f@@&ing awesome(a little OP)5 level prestige class for monks that specializes in scythes but i cant remember the name
I don't believe a scythe monk works. Mainly because scythe is not a monk weapon and you won't be able to flurry with it.
Im a little annoyed because it appears neither of you read my original post. Wild captain, i mention the PRC youre talking about in my post, its in dragon 299 and called REAPERS CHILD. The other prestige classes you suggested are all Homebrew classes from the D&D wiki. -___-
Jon, i say in my original post that im using a KI FOCUS scythe so that it counts as a monk weapon, and i also mention the prc wild captain was trying to remember, that lets you use scythes as monk weapons anyway.
First people digress into an argument over how a feat works, and then the replies i do get didnt even read my whole post :\
I miss the Wotc boards :\
A) It is hard to read your initial post.
B) Your list is a series of broken thoughts and musings that I can kind of decipher, but nowhere does it give me a build, a character idea, or something concrete to work off of.
C) I think you are giving us build advice in your first three dashes, but it is kinda hard to tell, I mean, you do start off complaining about the APG variants.
D) You also seem to be talking to yourself. I mean, you have "You'll" written in as if talking to a third party, its kinda weird.
E) Your coup-de-grace, after giving us very little to work with, is "can you help me?" This is like me saying "You (meaning me) don't like leaves, but they grow on trees, but you have to use fire..so how do I dig a pit?"
From what I can tell, you kinda sorta want to play a monk, but not really, but you have to because of the prestige class, so you are trying some feats that sorta don't work so you were hoping we had some ideas.
My suggestion: Tell us exactly what you see your character doing, and then we can offer up some suggestions after that.
PS - messageboards are a place for people to get together and discuss things, much like a party. This thread is a side conversation at that party, and sometimes we talk about stuff you are interested in, and sometimes we talk about items to make sure we are all on the same page so that we can answer the question you pose. It happens. If we had suddenly started talking about the virtues of duck hunting, then yes, you could be upset, but that isn't the case. So now that you have our attention, and we are all on the same page, gives us a clear goal of what you want to build, without all the clutter of feats, spells, and backwards compatable 3.x material.
I look forward to helping you....
Doc
A) It is hard to read your initial post.
B) Your list is a series of broken thoughts and musings that I can kind of decipher, but nowhere does it give me a build, a character idea, or something concrete to work off of.
C) I think you are giving us build advice in your first three dashes, but it is kinda hard to tell, I mean, you do start off complaining about the APG variants.
D) You also seem to be talking to yourself. I mean, you have "You'll" written in as if talking to a third party, its kinda weird.
E) Your coup-de-grace, after giving us very little to work with, is "can you help me?" This is like me saying "You (meaning me) don't like leaves, but they grow on trees, but you have to use fire..so how do I dig a pit?"
+oo
From what I can tell, you kinda sorta want to play a monk, but not really, but you have to because of the prestige class, so you are trying some feats that sorta don't work so you were hoping we had some ideas.
My suggestion: Tell us exactly what you see your character doing, and then we can offer up some suggestions after that.
PS - messageboards are a place for people to get together and discuss things, much like a party. This thread is a side conversation at that party, and sometimes we talk about stuff you are interested in, and sometimes we talk about items to make sure we are all on the same page so that we can answer the question you pose. It happens. If we had suddenly started talking about the virtues of duck hunting, then yes, you could be upset, but that isn't the case. So now that you have our attention, and we are all on the same page, gives us a clear goal of what you want to build, without all the clutter of feats, spells, and backwards compatable 3.x material.
+1
Doc Cosmic i think i've fall in love with you
Play a fighter? It doesn't look, mechanically, like the hungry ghost thing is really going to work how you want. A fighter with a scythe and some glamered armor (to look like a robe) could work just fine. Admittedly it loses the flavor, but let's you focus more on the crazy scythe criticals.
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Read KI Focus (from the core rulebook).
"The magic weapon serves as a channel for the
wielder’s ki, allowing her to use her special ki attacks through
the weapon as if they were unarmed attacks. These attacks
include the monk’s ki strike, quivering palm, and the Stunning
Fist feat (including any condition that the monk can apply using
this feat). Only melee weapons can have the ki focus ability."I don't read anywhere in that paragraph that allows you to use a non-monk weapon as a monk weapon. I think all it does is allow you to use stunning fist and other ki powers through a weapon.
Give the man a cookie.