To me, it seems as if a Goliath Monk should be able to use the unarmed damage for a large creature. The main problem I see is, unlike a normal weapon, a monk's unarmed damage scales with level. Any input?A goliath is also considered to
be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s
special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or
swallow whole) can affect him. A goliath can use weapons
designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.
I'm afraid that unarmed strikes are unaffected by the Powerful Build trait; it only affects held weapons, as unarmed strikes are not "held".
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I'm afraid that unarmed strikes are unaffected by the Powerful Build trait; it only affects held weapons, as unarmed strikes are not "held".To me, it seems as if a Goliath Monk should be able to use the unarmed damage for a large creature. The main problem I see is, unlike a normal weapon, a monk's unarmed damage scales with level. Any input?A goliath is also considered to
be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s
special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or
swallow whole) can affect him. A goliath can use weapons
designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.
I disagree. The powerful build trait basically lets them function as a large creature for all effects that are advantageous for them and medium for the rest. In addition, a monks unarmed strike is considered both a natural and manufactured weapon for rules purposes.
So... yes, the would start off at 1d8 for unarmed strikes. The scaling for unarmed damage for non medium creatures is on the bottom of page 58.
Also, I am glad to hear someone else who is still using goliaths for their games. I absolutely LOVE them, for their flavor more than anything else but I was sorely disappointed when I found out the whole creative rights deal...
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Well, that is a tough question because of the way a monks unarmed attack works.
With pathfinder you cannot use INA to improve your unarmed damage, it is official as ruled by the developers sadly so if you want to try to improve the damage you are doing I would personally recommend either or both of these two things.
1) Power attack, this feat does WONDERS. Yes you are sacrificing to hit but you have an "effective" full BAB because of how FOB works. Trust me the math is right, a monk Flurries at a full BAB with TWF penalties counted in already.
2) Get an Amulet of Might Fists (Guided) so you don't have to put as much into strength and you can still have a great +hit & Damage. This enchantment lets you add your wisdom mod to hit and damage with the weapon it is applied to, in this case, all of your natural attacks and unarmed strikes. This move only costs you 5k gold and is MORE than worth it in the long run as you can distribute your few ability score points over a fewer number of stats.
I read through the half giant and goliath in the RoS book and the wording is identical, here is the copy/paste:
The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
It doesn't say any time it is best for them they get to have the effect. It gives specific situations where it comes into play. Namely, opposed checks if size would be a benefit, if being a size larger would keep them from being affected by an attack, using weapons that are larger than their size without penalty. That is all they get, unarmed strikes aren't listed as being increased so they wouldn't do more damage.
I can see that going either way. DM call. "function as a size larger" does not equal actually being a size larger. If I were DM I would say just be happy with a medium monk's standard unarmed PWNage. If you want a weapon for a large creature you can use one.
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The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Skylancer, your reading of this skill depends on a specific parsing of the above quote. If you read "size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check" it rules how you determined. If you parse the sentence "size modifier or (special size modifier for an opposed check)" wherein special size modifier only counts for the listed examples, then it rules the other way.
I'm not sure how to parse it, though I'd rule on the side of extra damage since it's only fair for how it works with manufactured weapons, a category in which monk attacks are included.
The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.Skylancer, your reading of this skill depends on a specific parsing of the above quote. If you read "size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check" it rules how you determined. If you parse the sentence "size modifier or (special size modifier for an opposed check)" wherein special size modifier only counts for the listed examples, then it rules the other way.
I'm not sure how to parse it, though I'd rule on the side of extra damage since it's only fair for how it works with manufactured weapons, a category in which monk attacks are included.
Unarmed strike does nothing to subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check, or is it determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size can affect him. What it does is check a given statistic that is not modified by either of the above situations to determine the damage done. The unarmed strike is an ability that is usable by the character, it doesn't "check" or "subject" the character to anything. It is based of the current size of the character which for all other cases besides the ones stated under powerful build is normally medium (spells, abilities that alter this not withstanding).
If you want to take it one step further, the Errata/FAQ for the ability explicitly states that this doesn't occur and before you go "this is Pathfinder" please note the ability doesn't actually exist in the PFRPG game so it is the only official response we can expect to get.
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If you want to take it one step further, the Errata/FAQ for the ability explicitly states that this doesn't occur and before you go "this is Pathfinder" please note the ability doesn't actually exist in the PFRPG game so it is the only official response we can expect to get.
I was not terribly active during the 3.5 years so I certainly may have missed an errata from WoTC on Powerful Build. If such a ruling exists (you'll forgive my "if," I hope, since you didn't link to anything), then I stand corrected.
However, you must admit that it seems arbitrary to allow a half-giant or goliath to use a large sword but not use large damage for their fists.
Skylancer has it right.
The interpretation that a creature with powerful build is treated as large when it is beneficial to him/her is common, but erroneous.
If the DM wants to interpret it that way then that's fine, but by RAW unarmed attacks are not 'held'.
If you want to take it one step further, the Errata/FAQ for the ability explicitly states that this doesn't occur and before you go "this is Pathfinder" please note the ability doesn't actually exist in the PFRPG game so it is the only official response we can expect to get.I was not terribly active during the 3.5 years so I certainly may have missed an errata from WoTC on Powerful Build. If such a ruling exists (you'll forgive my "if," I hope, since you didn't link to anything), then I stand corrected.
However, you must admit that it seems arbitrary to allow a half-giant or goliath to use a large sword but not use large damage for their fists.
Well you could use a Large gauntlet to deal Large damage, but you wouldn't be able to use FoB as it isn't a monk weapon.
You could also wield brass knuckles. They alloow you to do your Monk damage. Would large barass knuckles not allow you to do large monk damage if you qualified?
Well if you're a Monk, then you're dealing your Monk unarmed damage, not the brass knuckle damage. So, although they're large, you're not dealing that damage.
If you weren't a Monk tho, then yeah, you'd deal damage one size category higher — 1d3>1d4. meh.
You could also wield brass knuckles. They alloow you to do your Monk damage. Would large barass knuckles not allow you to do large monk damage if you qualified?
I just read it and I'd have to go with "no", reason being the text of the weapon says specifically that you do your unarmed damage so even if they were "large" it doesn't do anything for you. SO after reading that I went to the PFRPG to look at gauntlets and they say the same damn thing. They aren't just a strict damage based on the size of a normal unarmed attack, they say they inflict the normal unarmed damage of the attack as lethal damage. That might have been different in 3.5 who knows (and I don't care enough to worry about it).
Regardless as both items say they deal normal unarmed damage as lethal damage (basically a conversion which a monk doesn't need) even a large set of either wouldn't increase the damage done. Excuse me on the erroneous example.