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Searched but didn't find this addressed anywhere else. The Beast Totem rage power states:
While raging, the barbarian gains a +1 natural armor bonus. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the barbarian has attained. A barbarian must have the lesser beast totem rage power to select this rage power. A barbarian must be at least 6th level to select this rage power.
So once you get it at 6th level, you have already attained four levels also. So doesn't this bonus start at +2? If so why write it that way (rather than as "+1 for every four levels after 6th") unless the last sentence regarding 6th level was for total character level and the second sentence referred to Barbarian levels only.
Am I missing something?
it be +1 at 6th, +2 at 8th, +3 at 12th and so on.
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That doesn't follow. Like at all. Lets break the power down into separate bits.
While raging, the barbarian gains a +1 natural armor bonus.
Ok. I have this bonus now. Thank you, rage!
This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the barbarian has attained.
"This bonus" refers to the aforementioned +1 bonus. It increases by 1 at level 4. It cannot become 1 at 4th level because the bonus it is supposed to increase is not increasing at that point, it would just be existing.
If they had intended it to increase the way you describe they would have had to say "This bonus increases by 1 at level 8 and every 4 levels thereafter." It doesn't. It reads like every other ability in the book that starts at level 1 and scales from there.
yep its +1 for every 4 level. at 6th you have the +1 form level 4..but not level 8, ya can't take the extra +1 as you did not have it before level 4.
so at level 6 you get +1, at 8 your get +2. You do not get +2 at level 6.
yep its +1 for every 4 level. at 6th you have the +1 form level 4..but not level 8, ya can't take the extra +1 as you did not have it before level 4.
so at level 6 you get +1, at 8 your get +2. You do not get +2 at level 6.
Read it again. It is +1, and ANOTHER +1 per 4 levels. Think of it like Power Attack. Level/4 +1. So at level 8 it's +3.
Read it again. It is +1, and ANOTHER +1 per 4 levels. Think of it like Power Attack. Level/4 +1. So at level 8 it's +3.
ya know ya might be right. I was not thinking of it like that and it is a bit unclear. Lest to me anyhow.
Well after thinking on it, you can take it any level after 6th. If you got it only at 6th level it be fine, but as you can take it at say 13th level or 8th or 17th the wording makes sense.
Like meatrace said it's the same as power attack. So no matter what level you gain it ya use the same formula to find out what the bonus is.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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unless the last sentence regarding 6th level was for total character level and the second sentence referred to Barbarian levels only.
Am I missing something?
There really only needs to be one FAQ answer to cover 99% of these types of interpretations.
In general, unless explicitly said, any time a number of levels is referred to by a class. It only refers to levels in that class. When the rare time they mean all levels, they will use "Character Level" or some other phrase to specify they mean all hit dice the thing has.
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There really only needs to be one FAQ answer to cover 99% of these types of interpretations.
In general, unless explicitly said, any time a number of levels is referred to by a class. It only refers to levels in that class. When the rare time they mean all levels, they will use "Character Level" or some other phrase to specify they mean all hit dice the thing has.
I'm with you that it is unlikely that it referred to character levels. It is still an odd way to write that if they mean for the natural armor bonus to begin at 2.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I'm with you that it is unlikely that it referred to character levels. It is still an odd way to write that if they mean for the natural armor bonus to begin at 2.
Oh I see what is confusing you.
It doesn't start at 2.
At 6th level you have 6 levels.
6/4 = 1.5 = round(1.5) = 1 = +1 natural armor
At 8th level you have 8 levels = 8/4 = 2 = round(2) = 2 = +2 natural armor
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But then why the hell is it written the way it is. By RAW it starts at two. I'll repost what I wrote above
Lets break the power down into separate bits.
While raging, the barbarian gains a +1 natural armor bonus.
Ok. I have this bonus now. Thank you, rage!
This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the barbarian has attained.
"This bonus" refers to the aforementioned +1 bonus. It increases by 1 at level 4. It cannot become 1 at 4th level because the bonus it is supposed to increase is not increasing at that point, it would just be existing.
If they had intended it to increase the way you describe they would have had to say "This bonus increases by 1 at level 8 and every 4 levels thereafter." It doesn't. It reads like every other ability in the book that starts at level 1 and scales from there.
Do you have a rebuttal? It seems to me that for "the bonus" to increase by 1 for every four levels there has to be a bonus to increase. And that's the original +1.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I parse it the way Yuengling Dragon does.
I got it, I just never parsed it that way.
I can appreciate how you parse it that way, but I think that is too fidly. I don't think that is the intended way to parse it. I believe it is more along the lines of X=level; int (x/4) = NAC bonus.
I love how knowledge is parsed on here. ;p
/jokes
I parse it the way Yuengling Dragon does.I got it, I just never parsed it that way.
I can appreciate how you parse it that way, but I think that is too fidly. I don't think that is the intended way to parse it. I believe it is more along the lines of X=level; int (x/4) = NAC bonus.
Except that is plainly wrong. It is not any more fiddly thatn Power Attack which uses the same formula to calculate bonuses and penalties. BAB/4 +1. At 1 (BAB/Bbn Level) it would be 1, at 4 it is 2, 8-3 etc.
You will see a great number of barbarian rage powers that work precisely the same way. Superstition, for example, gives a +2 bonus to all saves against spells, +1 for every 4 levels. If taken at level 4 it starts at +3. If taken at level 8 it starts at +4, etc.
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Except that is plainly wrong. It is not any more fiddly thatn Power Attack which uses the same formula to calculate bonuses and penalties. BAB/4 +1. At 1 (BAB/Bbn Level) it would be 1, at 4 it is 2, 8-3 etc.
You will see a great number of barbarian rage powers that work precisely the same way. Superstition, for example, gives a +2 bonus to all saves against spells, +1 for every 4 levels. If taken at level 4 it starts at +3. If taken at level 8 it starts at +4, etc.
Yeah, the real problem is that neither power attack nor Superstitious require you to already be a level ahead of the first bump. It causes confusion, which is why I can see people not putting it together.
Yeah, the real problem is that neither power attack nor Superstitious require you to already be a level ahead of the first bump. It causes confusion, which is why I can see people not putting it together.Except that is plainly wrong. It is not any more fiddly thatn Power Attack which uses the same formula to calculate bonuses and penalties. BAB/4 +1. At 1 (BAB/Bbn Level) it would be 1, at 4 it is 2, 8-3 etc.
You will see a great number of barbarian rage powers that work precisely the same way. Superstition, for example, gives a +2 bonus to all saves against spells, +1 for every 4 levels. If taken at level 4 it starts at +3. If taken at level 8 it starts at +4, etc.
This is true, and I can understand confusion. Until you read it that second time and then it makes sense. I imagine they originally had the prerequisite level lower or not there at all, and didn't change the wording when they attached one.
Except that is plainly wrong.You are agreeing with my post right? I'm confused. I assume you meant to say "Yuengling Dragon" parse is plainly wrong, since you parsed it the same as I did when you keyed it to the way PA works.
Power attack is (BAB/4, rounded down) +1. Not (BAB/4, rounded down).
This rage power seems to work the same way to me. Divide your Barbarian level by 4, round down, then add 1. So at 6th level, the first level you can take it, your bonus is +2. At 8th, +3. Etc.
I don't see any justification to read an unwritten "except for his first four levels" into the equation given in the first post, which is what would be required to rule that the bonus at 6th level is +1.
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Except that is plainly wrong.You are agreeing with my post right? I'm confused. I assume you meant to say "Yuengling Dragon" parse is plainly wrong, since you parsed it the same as I did when you keyed it to the way PA works.
No he's agreeing with me. Reread his post and pay particular attention to the the mathy bits.
BAB/4(rounded down)+1 is how this works, similarly to power attack (although you have to multiply the result of that equation for PA by 2 or 3). That comes out to a starting bonus of 2 when you can take this at 6th level.
Except that is plainly wrong.You are agreeing with my post right? I'm confused. I assume you meant to say "Yuengling Dragon" parse is plainly wrong, since you parsed it the same as I did when you keyed it to the way PA works.
No, you are wrong. You stated that your interpretation is x/4=NAC bonus. That is incorrect. It is x/4 (rounded down)+1.
If I were agreeing with your post I wouldn't say something like "that is plainly wrong". The fact that this confuses you explains much insofar as how you parsed the ability itself.
By the RAW it is barbarian level / 4 + 1; +2 nat ac at 6, +3 at 8, +4 at 12, etc.