Whirlwind attack

[Elthbert]

THis has been a topic of debate for some time in my group.

If one was using a weapon which allowed tripping could one whirlwind attack, to trip every enemy in reach?

[AvalonXQ]

Yes, one could. A trip attack can be made in place of a melee attack, including those granted by that feat.

[Elthbert]

AvalonXQ wrote:

Yes, one could. A trip attack can be made in place of a melee attack, including those granted by that feat.

Yes this is how I read it as well. Anyone disagree?

[FireberdGNOME]

No basis for dissent.

However, as GMs we all have solutions for this.

"I need your Character sheet til the next session..."

*later at Kinkos* *BzzzzCopyBzzzCopy*

*next Session* "You see three warriors bearing down on you, they are all armed and equipped identically..."

That is, turn their 'cleverness' back.

Or,

As you are walking along the trail at the bottom of the canyon you hear the shifting of rocks above you: Before you can react the bandits open fire!

Use terrain to neutralize the PC's advantage. PCs will do it, why won't the bad guys do the same?

Or, He's a Giant and is *much* stronger than you. And bigger. And has Imp Trip, himself...

I see this getting abused *very* badly with a Whip. (15' reach) Just remember that attacking with a Whip does Provoke AoO. So, did I mention that giant has a Long Spear? ;)

Some bad guys are inherently tough to work a one-trick-pony on...

GNOME

[Dabbler]

It's doable, but situational enough that unless your DM deliberately throws foes at you that are tripable and can/will line up to be tripped by a whirlwind attack, it's not going to occur very often.

[james maissen]

Elthbert wrote:

THis has been a topic of debate for some time in my group.

If one was using a weapon which allowed tripping could one whirlwind attack, to trip every enemy in reach?

One could elect to trip select foes, normally attack others, and attempt to disarm some remaining in reach.

These choices are made sequentially as each is a separate attack. If for example these attacks all provoked AOOs, the whirlwinder might be dropped before being able to make all of his attacks.. just as could happen if they were making a full attack where each attack provoked.

Also one can elect, just as in a full attack action, to take a 5' step in between attacks from the whirlwind.

As to 'throw the same back at him' I don't see it as too kosher. The thought behind it is imho wrong and creates a hostile atmosphere. It's metagamy and just poor. Let the chips fall where they may, but designing around such things detracts from the game.. especially if it is motivated to 'punish' or to 'show' a player.

-James

[Elthbert]

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, its a nice trick, but certianly not going to break the game. Though a gruisarme combined with improved trip, short haft(3.5 PHII)and whirlwind seems like a nasty little combnation.

[EWHM]

Tactic is just fine. It's nicely combined also with Lunge and an Enlarge spell. My players call it (or the slightly cheaper in feats version with cleave/great cleave) the 'street sweeper'. It's quite pricey in feats but a 2handed bruiser fighter type can afford it as his secondary schtick.

[Kazaan]

Whirlwind Attack lets you take a single melee attack and "spread" it to all foes within your reach. You're rolling attack on each one, but it's still a single melee attack with a single damage roll. So you could replace that single melee attack with trip or disarm, but it would have to apply to all targets. So you can't select out targets for different effects but you can certainly pick Trip and apply that Trip to all applicable foes. To illustrate, say you have 4 d00ds in range for a Whirlwind Attack. You roll attack against AC for all of them to determine which ones you've hit:

A) Roll 15 vs 12 AC: Hit
B) Roll 20 vs 218 AC: Hit
C) Roll 10 vs 11 AC: Miss
D) Roll 26 vs 15 AC: Hit + Crit (presume confirmed)

Then, after you know who you've damaged, roll damage. We'll say 1d8+6 for the sake of example:

1d8+6: 12 normal damage
12 + 1d8+6: 21 crit damage
Targets A and B take 12 damage, Target D takes 21 damage, and Target C is missed.

Furthermore, you can trip with any weapon, not just those with the Trip special. What the Trip special does is allows you to drop your weapon in lieu of falling prone if you fail the trip check by more than 10.