Is Paizo going to release another printed version of the campaign setting. The PDF if still available on the website, but not the print version.
Chief Technical Officer
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Is Paizo going to release another printed version of the campaign setting. The PDF if still available on the website, but not the print version.
In February, we'll be replacing it with Pathfinder Campaign Setting: World Guide—The Inner Sea.
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No chance that that pdf for the original will be reduced is there?
I'm just curious because I'm one of those cheap SOBs that is more than happy to pay $40+ for the hard copy of a game, but paying more than $15 for a pdf just ain't happenin' unless it is one that I desperately want. Usually $10 for a pdf is my limit. I just have a hard time paying more than that for something I have to print out myself at lower quality than the HC.
I'll be buying the HC of the new edition, so more than anything I was just thought I'd ask.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I think that either James of Vic said somewhere that they were looking at the same price point for the PDF as the core hardcovers have - 9.99No chance that that pdf for the original will be reduced is there?
The PDF of the new Inner Sea book will be $9.99.
We won't be reducing the price of the old one, partly because we don't really want people to buy it after the new one comes out—we're just leaving it up for completists who must have everything. (We'll actually be adding additional messaging during checkout for anybody trying to buy the old PDF, ensuring they know that it's obsolete and that the PDF of the new version is actually much cheaper.)
I think that either James of Vic said somewhere that they were looking at the same price point for the PDF as the core hardcovers have - 9.99No chance that that pdf for the original will be reduced is there?
The PDF of the new Inner Sea book will be $9.99.
We won't be reducing the price of the old one, partly because we don't really want people to buy it after the new one comes out—we're just leaving it up for completists who must have everything. (We'll actually be adding additional messaging during checkout for anybody trying to buy the old PDF, ensuring they know that it's obsolete and that the PDF of the new version is actually much cheaper.)
Thanks for the information. I saw a lot of new material coming out for the campaign setting, but didn't see the book in print. I was curious what was going on. I look forward to February.
Is Paizo going to release another printed version of the campaign setting. The PDF if still available on the website, but not the print version.In February, we'll be replacing it with Pathfinder Campaign Setting: World Guide—The Inner Sea.
So, this contains all the info from the first book, along with new revisions etc? I realize this is a bit of a silly question... I just want to make sure I buy the right book.
So, this contains all the info from the first book, along with new revisions etc? I realize this is a bit of a silly question... I just want to make sure I buy the right book.
Yeah, it's got all the old information, plus a lot more, especially in the nation sections--plus there's a TON of new maps and illustrations. Having seen this book in layout, I can only say that it's so clearly superior to the original (which was still pretty cool!) that I can hardly believe it.
Yeah, it's got all the old information, plus a lot more, especially in the nation sections--plus there's a TON of new maps and illustrations. Having seen this book in layout, I can only say that it's so clearly superior to the original (which was still pretty cool!) that I can hardly believe it.So, this contains all the info from the first book, along with new revisions etc? I realize this is a bit of a silly question... I just want to make sure I buy the right book.
James,
Thankyou so much for the reply and confirmation! :)
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Yeah, it's got all the old information, plus a lot more
Is that to be read as "The new book has 100% of the information from the old book, plus a lot more"?
This one will not obsolete the first printing; it'll expand on it. In some cases, material in the first printing might not appear in this new version, or might be less detailed... but my goal in preparing this book is to add and expand, not overwrite.
*emphasis mine*
Is the above no longer the case?
Yeah, it's got all the old information, plus a lot more, especially in the nation sections--plus there's a TON of new maps and illustrations. Having seen this book in layout, I can only say that it's so clearly superior to the original (which was still pretty cool!) that I can hardly believe it.So, this contains all the info from the first book, along with new revisions etc? I realize this is a bit of a silly question... I just want to make sure I buy the right book.
How do you guys keep doing this?
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Yeah, it's got all the old information, plus a lot moreIs that to be read as "The new book has 100% of the information from the old book, plus a lot more"?
This one will not obsolete the first printing; it'll expand on it. In some cases, material in the first printing might not appear in this new version, or might be less detailed... but my goal in preparing this book is to add and expand, not overwrite.*emphasis mine*
Is the above no longer the case?
It isn't just a copy/paste of the old book with new info added on. Rather, every section was reorganized and almost entirely expanded. Additionally, there were some things in the original hardcover that provided additional options for playing PCs of different classes in Golarion under the 3.5 rules, additional domains, PrCs, etc that have now been incorporated into the Core Rulebook. We no longer need a PrC for the Pathfinder Chronicler, for example, because that's a core part of the game, not just of the setting. Similarly, some of the "new" equipment presented in the original CS has now been incorporated into the core line or Adventurer's Armory. So yes, some things have been removed, but overall the important stuff is all still there and greatly expanded and most of what was removed now exists in other places. No need to be redundant, after all.
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This one will not obsolete the first printing...Does this new book, make my prior $40 purchase obsolete? If it does NOT, please explain how?
No it does not... obsolete would mean that the data contained was no longer true.... say if the guide to the inner sea said that Cheliax devil worshipers were really worshiping angels, and no one knew it, or that Osirion is really over in Tan Xia, and not the Inner Sea.
As you quote above
it'll expand on it. In some cases, material in the first printing might not appear in this new version, or might be less detailed... but my goal in preparing this book is to add and expand, not overwrite.
The data that is in your old book is still valid, and therefore not obsolete. Just like a 200 page book on George Washington is not obsolete when a 300 page one comes out, so will your book not be obsolete when this one comes out. Washington was still a British citizen and war hero, who back General of the Continental Amry, and later the USA's first official president. He still crossed the deleware River, and he's still on at $1 bill.
There are some facts in the new that arn't in the old, and I'm sure there are some in the old that end up getting cut for space/layout/difference in prerogative/not fitting the new layout reasons.
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No it does not... obsolete would mean that the data contained was no longer true....
Seems the gist of my question is not getting through...
Obsolete as in it would seem that I have already bought and paid for much of the information that will be in this new book. Sure it has been shined up, and updated crunch wise, and expanded upon. But essentially the fluff is still the same. Which to me says I will be paying for this information all over again...
I just hate buying things twice or more. I hated it when TSR did it, I hated it when WotC did it, and I hate now that Paizo is doing it...
All that being said; I am a subscriber to the Campaign Setting line of books and supplements and I will buy this book when it is released...
I just wish it could have been made as a companion volume akin to what WotC did with the "Player's Guide to Faerun" which was essentially just a 3.5 rules update to the 3.0 FR Campaign Setting book...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
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No it does not... obsolete would mean that the data contained was no longer true....Seems the gist of my question is not getting through...
Obsolete as in it would seem that I have already bought and paid for much of the information that will be in this new book. Sure it has been shined up, and updated crunch wise, and expanded upon. But essentially the fluff is still the same. Which to me says I will be paying for this information all over again...
I just hate buying things twice or more. I hated it when TSR did it, I hated it when WotC did it, and I hate now that Paizo is doing it...
All that being said; I am a subscriber to the Campaign Setting line of books and supplements and I will buy this book when it is released...
I just wish it could have been made as a companion volume akin to what WotC did with the "Player's Guide to Faerun" which was essentially just a 3.5 rules update to the 3.0 FR Campaign Setting book...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
There's nothing that pisses off customers more than "Hi, thanks for buying the only in-print campaign setting. Now, see, this isn't a complete book, you need the OOP one from 5 years ago to use it. Good luck with eBay !". Greyhawk From The Ashes, I am looking at you.
@Digitalelf:
Yes, a substantial amount of the information in the new book you already have. Don't buy it if you think you'll be upset about it. If you already have the old hardcover, consider only getting the (much cheaper) new PDF.
I just wish it could have been made as a companion volume akin to what WotC did with the "Player's Guide to Faerun" which was essentially just a 3.5 rules update to the 3.0 FR Campaign Setting book...
That Softcover/PDF is already out. "Companion - Inner Sea Primer".
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Keep in mind that the original campaign setting preceded the Pathfinder core rules. This means the old campaign setting is quite simply not correctly aligned to the rules and the game as we play it now (compatibility aside).
- The new book cleans up everything that wasn't quite right in the old book
- Expands on nearly everything in addition to adding wholly new content
- Some new crunch for characters, items, etc
- Fantastic and all-new art
If you're not happy with this arrangement, you can easily put your subscription on hold for that release and start it again afterward.
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That Softcover/PDF is already out. "Companion - Inner Sea Primer".
Keep in mind that the original campaign setting preceded the Pathfinder core rules.
Not to be snarky, but did you even read the text you quoted from me??
The FR Campaign Setting book had crunch and fluff, it was 3.0...
The "Player's Guide to Faerun" was mostly the crunch (with little fluff) from the aforementioned FRCS updated to the (then) NEWER 3.5 rules...
My wish was that Paizo followed this model and left much of the fluff from their campaign setting book as is, and published a book that updated just the crunch from 3.5 to PFRPG...
You suggest not buying the book, when I clearly said that I am going to, and that it was just frustrating...
I don’t see how I can make myself any clearer on what it is about this that is upsetting to me...
*EDIT*
If Paizo kept the Old CS book in Print alongside this "PFRPG Update" book I thought would have been nice, then there would no need to look on ebay for an old OOP book...
But I guess people would rather buy two books with mostly the same info instead of two books that merely complement each other (instead of directly competing with each other)...
I give up...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
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That Softcover/PDF is already out. "Companion - Inner Sea Primer".
Keep in mind that the original campaign setting preceded the Pathfinder core rules.
Not to be snarky, but did you even read the text you quoted from me??
The FR Campaign Setting book had crunch and fluff, it was 3.0...
The "Player's Guide to Faerun" was mostly the crunch (with little fluff) from the aforementioned FRCS updated to the (then) NEWER 3.5 rules...
My wish was that Paizo followed this model and left much of the fluff from their campaign setting book as is, and published a book that updated just the crunch from 3.5 to PFRPG...
You suggest not buying the book, when I clearly said that I am going to, and that it was just frustrating...
I don’t see how I can make myself any clearer on what it is about this that is upsetting to me...
*EDIT*
If Paizo kept the Old CS book in Print alongside this "PFRPG Update" book I thought would have been nice, then there would no need to look on ebay for an old OOP book...
But I guess people would rather buy two books with mostly the same info instead of two books that merely complement each other (instead of directly competing with each other)...
I give up...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
This isn't economically viable at all. You're comparing a large company that can reprint things ad nauseam (WotC) to a company which is facing a tough decision every time something goes OOP (Paizo).
Also, the books are not competing with each other because the old CS is out of print and out of stock.
Also, like I said, if I were a new player and bought the CS only to see that it is outdated and I have to buy a new separate book to make crunch work I wouldn't be happy.
As Gorbacz points out, the old one is out-of-print; and there really is little justification to reprint it verbatim. The philosophy behind the campaign setting and specifically the core mechanics that govern Pathfinder have changed significantly. On the other hand, if they do update the old print with fixes, they might as well do it properly.
I realize that you mentioned out that you are buying it. But if you buy it knowing that you won't be happy with the content, then (I think) you have no right to complain - as no one forces you to purchase it (perhaps other than some form of compulsion). There are means at your disposal *not* to obtain it, or only a digital version instead of the whole hardcover.
I also realize that your problem is that the content is (to you) largely a rehash of existing information. I am willing to argue against this point of view on the grounds that the old campaign setting had a 2 page spread per region; the new one has a 4 page spread per region. So sure, no new regions - but each region has twice the content from before. That is a very significant increase in content. The prestige classes will also feature new content (as some of the older ones are being dropped, or have already been redone in other publications). Most of the crunch will be reworked.
The question then becomes, where is your break-even point? If it is 50% old and 50% new, is that fine? What about 80 / 20? 66.6 / 33.3? And of course, what constitutes new content to you?
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Chief Technical Officer
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If Paizo kept the Old CS book in Print alongside this "PFRPG Update" book I thought would have been nice, then there would no need to look on ebay for an old OOP book...
But I guess people would rather buy two books with mostly the same info instead of two books that merely complement each other (instead of directly competing with each other)...
Look at it from the point of view of a new customer. Most of them (actually, very probably *all* of them) would rather buy one book that's directly compatible with the game they're playing than one book that's written for an older system and a separate "update document."
It would also be very confusing for the company that created the Pathfinder RPG to continue to sell their core campaign setting book in an edition designed for 3.5.
As our 3.5 campaign setting was nearing the point of selling out, we had two choices: We could just update the stats in a new edition, or we could revisit it and improve on the original. Leaving it in print exactly as-is was not a viable option.
If we had just updated the stats, it might have made a *few* of the people who had purchased the older book happier, but I think that a greater number of those people would feel they "have to" buy the new version anyway—and most of them people will probably feel better about getting 70 pages of new content along with their rules update than if they *just* got a rules update for their money.
Besides, the original campaign setting book was the first Golarion hardcover we'd ever done, and we've learned a lot since then—both in terms of what we want out of our setting book, and what our customers want out of Golarion. Even though it ended up requiring a lot more work than we'd planned, we're all really glad that we've chosen to improve on the original. And I think when you see it, you will be too.