It's already been posted in another thread, but if you approve of the original link, you might be interested in the It Gets Better Project: http://www.youtube.com/itgetsbetterproject
I'd also drop in my two cents and say that the colloquial versus scientific meaning of phobias and the exact nature of Fred Phelps (who, despite some good works before he descended into frothing madness, is one of my prime examples of real-world evil) are only tangential to the important one which started this thread: recognizing and showing solidarity with queer kids (because whether or not you agree ideologically with who they are, they're still children who need to be nurtured) and giving ALL kids some hope for the future.
In my experience, middle school and high school are the years when humans first learn to feel better about themselves by inflicting pain on others. It's our job as adults to mitigate that as best we can.
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I'd also drop in my two cents and say that the colloquial versus scientific meaning of phobias and the exact nature of Fred Phelps (who, despite some good works before he descended into frothing madness, is one of my prime examples of real-world evil) are only tangential to the important one which started this thread: recognizing and showing solidarity with queer kids (because whether or not you agree ideologically with who they are, they're still children who need to be nurtured) and giving ALL kids some hope for the future.
And I would posit that this is a complete mischaracterization of what has transpired in this thread.
The original poster posited the video, and in his initial statement proffered it as proof of "homophobia being a mental illness," a point of contention, much less a professionally irresponsible mischaracterization, he defended time and again. He had numerous opportunities to redact or clarify or backpedal or whathave you until I asked him a simple question: what is the diagnosis code for homophobia?It was only at that point he changed his tune, and said he was having a socialogical discussion; up to that point he was actually defending the statement that homophobia IS a mental illness.
I hardly see where this is tangential. In fact, it IS the point which started this thread.
If it is not, I want you to have Gary, or Ross, or who ever not only delete THIS post, but ALL OF MY POSTS IN THIS THREAD. Because frankly, I really ernestly want to be accused of derailing a thread by staying on the original subject the original poster proffered in his original post.
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I'd also drop in my two cents and say that the colloquial versus scientific meaning of phobias and the exact nature of Fred Phelps (who, despite some good works before he descended into frothing madness, is one of my prime examples of real-world evil) are only tangential to the important one which started this thread: recognizing and showing solidarity with queer kids (because whether or not you agree ideologically with who they are, they're still children who need to be nurtured) and giving ALL kids some hope for the future.
And I would posit that this is a complete mischaracterization of what has transpired in this thread.
The original poster posited the video, and in his initial statement proffered it as proof of "homophobia being a mental illness," a point of contention, much less a professionally irresponsible mischaracterization, he defended time and again. He had numerous opportunities to redact or clarify or backpedal or whathave you until I asked him a simple question: what is the diagnosis code for homophobia?
It was only at that point he changed his tune, and said he was having a socialogical discussion; up to that point he was actually defending the statement that homophobia IS a mental illness.
I hardly see where this is tangential. In fact, it IS the point which started this thread.If it is not, I want you to have Gary, or Ross, or who ever not only delete THIS post, but ALL OF MY POSTS IN THIS THREAD. Because frankly, I really ernestly want to be accused of derailing a thread by staying on the original subject the original poster proffered in his original post.
I`m sorry Heathy you dislike my viewpoint, if you don`t like it fine you don`t have too. But I would really like to have a discussion on a way to somehow put an end to this bullying or least help the victims not feel like they`re alone.
I was referring to the sentiment I perceived in what I watched of the link, and making the point that stopping the bullying/protecting kids is the only issue here which I see as important. So maybe I'm the threadjacker.
Well this is a hot button issue right now and I can see why. I don't know that I'd call it a disorder, but I suppose if viewed in the right spectrum that ALL behaviour could be considered such.
But to the point, bigotry is wrong. Don't ask Don't tell should be laid to rest soon (although years too late) and that's a step in the right direction.
The thing is, no matter WHAT you're reason is for condemning someone's sexuality, you're being a bigot. There's no excuse for bigotry, and anyone that stands behind an organization that supports bigotry is wrong.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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(Ross closed the other thread, so I hope I don't get in trouble for posting my reply to James, Jeremy, et al here.)
Heh, for both of you (well for anyone reading). Personally, I couldn't care less about your choice of (consenting, adult) roommates. I can tell you in my belief system that you're living in sin, but then to some, I was 'living in sin' for 4 years when Donna and I lived together. Like I've said, it's not my place to enforce my theology on anyone. Obviously I pray (since I've Faith I'm right) you'll make peace with yourselves and the Divine, as I try to. But I'm not going to advocate hunting you down and burning you at the stake, or go for forced heterosexuality treatments. (how does one do that anyway?)
I'm all for letting people live their own lives, as long as they don't harm another.
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I`m sorry Heathy you dislike my viewpoint, if you don`t like it fine you don`t have too. But I would really like to have a discussion on a way to somehow put an end to this bullying or least help the victims not feel like they`re alone.
My argument had nothing to do with your viewpoint.
You asked me if I ever met a homophobic before?
A looooooong time ago.
With fists. And boots. And blood.
I'll leave it at that.
I bet I totally agree with your point of view, dude.
I bet the 10th grade Heath, at the bottom of the (not my words)
"f~! pile" getting kneed in the kidneys and beat the f+!% out of
totally agrees with your point of view.
I think at this point it would be irresponsible for me to discuss suicide attempts, because I don't want to somehow inadvertently glamorize it. Though I agree with the assertion that it does get better.
Keep on living, kids. It gets better. There is a payoff for the crap you're going through. I'm glad that guy said so well and so honestly what I wish I had the gift of gab to say. I hope his statement does some good some how. I think it will.
What I don't agree with is the assertion that "homophobia is a mental illness." If it is ever categorized as one by a respected psychological organization, I will change my tune. I will eat crow.
I really don't think problems like homophobia are solved by utterly mischaracterizing them.
Now......homophobia is evil? You won't get any gripes from me by saying that. Maybe some tiresome (or not) semantics about what exactly constitutes homophobia, but that's about it.
I dunno on the phobia angle. There are some people to whom it is akin to a mental illness, the fear is so crippling and so completely irrational. However, these people are very, very rarely the ones who go out and hurt someone for it- you don't find many people afraid of snakes(for example) who go out hunting for them, they're usually balled up in the corner in the fetal position should one even come into the room. I wouldn't say you met a homophobe so much Heath as you did an a~&@&~* with levels in the bigot prestige class class.
Speaking personally, I've met a few people who were terrified of black people, on one occasion one guy just tossed me his wallet and started running away. I've never laughed so hard in my life, both at the incident, and at the idea that I had to chase the guy down to return his wallet.
The original poster posited the video, and in his initial statement proffered it as proof of "homophobia being a mental illness," a point of contention, much less a professionally irresponsible mischaracterization, he defended time and again. He had numerous opportunities to redact or clarify or backpedal or whathave you until I asked him a simple question: what is the diagnosis code for homophobia?
It was only at that point he changed his tune, and said he was having a socialogical discussion; up to that point he was actually defending the statement that homophobia IS a mental illness.
Well..the DSM V isn't out yet....we'll have to see.
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I dunno on the phobia angle. There are some people to whom it is akin to a mental illness, the fear is so crippling and so completely irrational. However, these people are very, very rarely the ones who go out and hurt someone for it- you don't find many people afraid of snakes(for example) who go out hunting for them, they're usually balled up in the corner in the fetal position should one even come into the room. I wouldn't say you met a homophobe so much Heath as you did an a@!~&#@ with levels in the bigot prestige class class.
Speaking personally, I've met a few people who were terrified of black people, on one occasion one guy just tossed me his wallet and started running away. I've never laughed so hard in my life, both at the incident, and at the idea that I had to chase the guy down to return his wallet.
You had to chase him down to return his wallet lol?
Which is why the term "homophobia" is itself a rhetorical abuse -- a way to silence discussion and encourage anti-religious bigotry.Unthinking fear of the other is wrong. Calling it an 'illness' is likewise.Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation.I'll follow Jeremy's example and not take the bait on the religious issue, but I'm interested in what way you perceive it to be a way to silence discussion?
What type of discussion does it silence? Define, please.
When "homophobe" is used as an authomatic epithet against anyone who disagrees with some act or goal of a gay rights movement on any ground, or who disagrees with a positive characterization of homosexuality on any ground, as it often is, then the term is being used to avoid a discussion rather than have one.
Oh, and Phelps? Phelps doesn't actually hate anyone; he doesn't actually have an affirmative ideology of any kind.
He has a business model where he gets a lot of money suing people for assaulting him and his followers at protests.
He got a lot of money suing on behalf of blacks, and when that money started to dry up he found another way to keep suing and getting money.
You think he actually hates America, or gays, or insert-cause-of-the-week-here? He's laughing all the way to the bank.