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You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing.
Frankly, having known persons with true life altering phobias, I find the flippant way it is tossed around to put people who dislike homosexuality in as negative a light as possible, as offensive as you might find those peoples beliefs.
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"American Psychiatric Association spokesman Jason Young says the organization is not yet at the point of evaluating specific new proposals like pathological bias, but that advocates for certain DSM changes tend to proceed on independent tracks. He describes the process of adding new material to DSM like tossing things into a funnel and seeing what makes it through. At this point, he says, "we're debating more what the funnel will look like."
DSM-IV came out in 1994 and was revised in 2000. DSM-V is due to come out in 2011, in conjunction with an update of the World Health Organization's International Classification of Diseases.
For more information, see the DSM-V Prelude Project Web site at www.dsm5.org."
Essentially, there exists a continuum.
Moving out of a neighborhood that is becoming more racially diverse, though possibly "full of ass," isn't indicative of a psychological condition. But a person overly preoccupied with race,.....thinks fore example that blacks or jews are responsible for all the ills of the world has something going on there probably. Same as being a bit sad is a different game than being clinically depressed.
Wikipedia
that "scholarly treatise" *sic* breaks up the phobias into
"actual psychological conditions" and "prejudices and discrimination."
Saying "homophobia" is a mental illness because the word "phobia" is a mental disorder is the same thing as saying "hydrocephalus" is "water on the head" because "hydro" means water. I know csf has some water in it, but....
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Homophobia (as with all forms of bigotry) is disgusting and wrong. Whether it is an actual illness, I’m not qualified to say. But I actually think that calling it an illness kind of gives these bigots a bit of a free pass. This is a behavioural thing in my opinion – people have a choice, they can choose not to be homophobic or racist or discriminatory or whatever, they don’t need medical help to do so. They shouldn’t be able to say ‘it’s not my fault, I have a medical condition’. People need to take some f+&#ing responsibility for their words, actions and beliefs.
You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing.
Frankly, having known persons with true life altering phobias, I find the flippant way it is tossed around to put people who dislike homosexuality in as negative a light as possible, as offensive as you might find those peoples beliefs.
You do know what "homo" means in this contxt right?: Greek for "same" (since "phobia" is greek) so technically the word homophobia means "fear of the same" or fear of those like yourself. Nonetheless language is plastic and words can change their meaning - so to pandantically point out that the common usage of the word is not the same as its clincal definition is somewhat redunant.
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You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing.
Frankly, having known persons with true life altering phobias, I find the flippant way it is tossed around to put people who dislike homosexuality in as negative a light as possible, as offensive as you might find those peoples beliefs.
First Wolfie, I have a masters degree in clinical psychology, so to your statement. "You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing." Yes I do know what a phobia is. Secondly there is a difference between a debilitating phobia and a minor phobia. For example at the long term resident mental health facility I work at we have agoraphobic patients. Some are to the point they can't leave their rooms, some just can't leave the building but we still describe it as a debilitating phobia. Some of my friends just hate spiders, so much so they freeze up when they see one and have to leave the room. One is capable of living with it, others not so much. Secondly someone who "hates" homosexuals usually does so on an irrational basis. Hence it would still be a phobia like Xenophobia. It may be a trained behavior, but it is still unhealthy. I stick by my previous statement. And if someone has a disagreement with homosexuals then I wouldn't see that person as a homophobe, people like Fred Phelps on the other hand.......
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"American Psychiatric Association spokesman Jason Young says the organization is not yet at the point of evaluating specific new proposals like pathological bias, but that advocates for certain DSM changes tend to proceed on independent tracks. He describes the process of adding new material to DSM like tossing things into a funnel and seeing what makes it through. At this point, he says, "we're debating more what the funnel will look like."
DSM-IV came out in 1994 and was revised in 2000. DSM-V is due to come out in 2011, in conjunction with an update of the World Health Organization's International Classification of Diseases.
For more information, see the DSM-V Prelude Project Web site at www.dsm5.org."
Essentially, there exists a continuum.
Moving out of a neighborhood that is becoming more racially diverse, though possibly "full of ass," isn't indicative of a psychological condition. But a person overly preoccupied with race,.....thinks fore example that blacks or jews are responsible for all the ills of the world has something going on there probably. Same as being a bit sad is a different game than being clinically depressed.Wikipedia
that "scholarly treatise" *sic* breaks up the phobias into
"actual psychological conditions" and "prejudices and discrimination."Saying "homophobia" is a mental illness because the word "phobia" is a mental disorder is the same thing as saying "hydrocephalus" is "water on the head" because "hydro" means water. I know csf has some water in it, but....
This is what we describe a trained behavior. I think for the vast majority of real homophobic individuals it comes from a societal or family training.
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Do you know what the diagnostic code for homophobia is?There is none. It's more of a sociological discussion at this point. I am expressing my personal view on it.
Earlier, Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation."Thankyou for clarifying that point.
[edit]
further,
Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"First Wolfie, I have a masters degree in clinical psychology, so to your statement. "You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing." Yes I do know what a phobia is"
And, I suppose this one as well.
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Do you know what the diagnostic code for homophobia is?There is none. It's more of a sociological discussion at this point. I am expressing my personal view on it.Earlier, Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation."Thankyou for clarifying that point.
Have you met a homophobic person before? The way they irrationally hate. To me I think it may be worth looking into.
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Do you know what the diagnostic code for homophobia is?There is none. It's more of a sociological discussion at this point. I am expressing my personal view on it.Earlier, Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation."Thankyou for clarifying that point.
[edit]
further,
Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"First Wolfie, I have a masters degree in clinical psychology, so to your statement. "You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing." Yes I do know what a phobia is"And, I suppose this one as well.
Ok what is it you want? I can give you the university I graduated from if you'd like. I can even give you the name of my Masters supervisor if you want to call them. Question them about my credentials. So please back off.
So now if we can get back to the topic at hand being the "how can we solve the bullying problem". And the video presented it'd be appreciated.|
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Do you know what the diagnostic code for homophobia is?There is none. It's more of a sociological discussion at this point. I am expressing my personal view on it.Earlier, Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation."Thankyou for clarifying that point.
[edit]
further,
Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"First Wolfie, I have a masters degree in clinical psychology, so to your statement. "You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing." Yes I do know what a phobia is"And, I suppose this one as well.
Ok what is it you want? I can give you the university I graduated from if you'd like. I can even give you the name of my Masters supervisor if you want to call them. Question them about my credentials. So please back off.
So now if we can get back to the topic at hand being the "how can we solve the bullying problem". And the video presented it'd be appreciated.
I never questioned your credentials, merely the scientific veracity of your statements.
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I never questioned your credentials, merely the scientific veracity of your statements.Do you know what the diagnostic code for homophobia is?There is none. It's more of a sociological discussion at this point. I am expressing my personal view on it.Earlier, Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation."Thankyou for clarifying that point.
[edit]
further,
Jeremy Mcgillan said,
"First Wolfie, I have a masters degree in clinical psychology, so to your statement. "You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing." Yes I do know what a phobia is"And, I suppose this one as well.
Ok what is it you want? I can give you the university I graduated from if you'd like. I can even give you the name of my Masters supervisor if you want to call them. Question them about my credentials. So please back off.
So now if we can get back to the topic at hand being the "how can we solve the bullying problem". And the video presented it'd be appreciated.
Which is fine, now can we get back on topic?
It really is a sad ordeal, gay teen suicide rates are remarkably high compared to their straight counterparts, as are the reports of bullying. Is there any solution that is viable.
No.
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re: back on topic......
This just further shows homophobia is horrible illness that needs to be stopped.
You stated that "homophobia is a horrible illness that needs to be stopped,"
then, in support of this contention, seemed to state that, yes, your professional opinion is that indeed it is a pathology.I would posit that, given the OP, and the line of thought that continued from it, I never veered from the topic.
Instead, what I did was ask for clarification of some possibly erroneous statements in support of this initial statement.
I ernestly do not mean to be deliberately obtuse. The problem of homophobia definitely needs to be addressed. I do not think that making possibly erroneous statements about the subject is the right way to go about this.
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If we are calling homophobia and/or bullying of gay teens a sociological issue, let me give what I can to the discussion. I have a master's degree in sociology and I am working on my PhD currently. I am not a scholar of gender, but in sociology (particularly in my department), it does come up. Homophobia (people like to medicalize deviance, a topic I can go on about) is much like other forms of bigotry, but with less organized resistance in most places. People fear and dislike the "other" (people who are not like them, heterophobia, if you will). People who are in powerful positions, typically white males of middle or higher class tend to use their power to enforce their own codes of normality. If that code excludes an individual or a group of individuals, then they are often labeled as deviants. Deviants are held in low regard by the majority (even others who are similarly outcast(e) from the mainstream, majority, or power-base (they are not always the same). Social controls (ranging from disapproving glances, to the outright disregard of civil rights) are often empolyed to keep these deviant populations in their "place" lower in the social order than those in power. Bullys and bigots are often fearful of their own place in the social order, so they use (or become) social controls against deviant populations, in recent cases gays, but previously racial minorities and women have been targets of similar social constraints. This is too long, and I don't know if I am adding anything.
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re: back on topic......
This just further shows homophobia is horrible illness that needs to be stopped.You stated that "homophobia is a horrible illness that needs to be stopped,"
then, in support of this contention, seemed to state that, yes, your professional opinion is that indeed it is a pathology.I would posit that, given the OP, and the line of thought that continued from it, I never veered from the topic.
Instead, what I did was ask for clarification of some possibly erroneous statements in support of this initial statement.
I ernestly do not mean to be deliberately obtuse. The problem of homophobia definitely needs to be addressed. I do not think that making possibly erroneous statements about the subject is the right way to go about this.
I had intended the link to speak more than the statement. Did you watch the link?
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It really is a sad ordeal, gay teen suicide rates are remarkably high compared to their straight counterparts, as are the reports of bullying. Is there any solution that is viable.No.
I disagree. Parents and schools can work together to deal with bullying. This cooperation takes time, though it becomes easier once the procedures and expectations are put in place. I am not saying that bullying or discrimination can be removed from the school environment completely. However, it can be reduced significantly.
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I disagree. Parents and schools can work together to deal with bullying. This cooperation takes time, though it becomes easier once the procedures and expectations are put in place. I am not saying that bullying or discrimination can be removed from the school environment completely. However, it can be reduced significantly.It really is a sad ordeal, gay teen suicide rates are remarkably high compared to their straight counterparts, as are the reports of bullying. Is there any solution that is viable.No.
You think that tougher punishments for bullying should be in place?
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You think that tougher punishments for bullying should be in place?
Personally, I need you to define tougher. I am not too sure how extreme a punishment you might consider appropriate.
I work in the government school system and have nine years experience. Two as a casual teacher and seven as a full-time appointment.
In my experience the best way a school can deal with bullying is to set clear expectations for student behaviour and maintain a consistent system of punishment. This requires the cooperation of the school executive, the teachers, the student council and the parents.
Students need to be educated on what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. However, the school needs the support of staff, students and teachers to ensure this works.
I work in a school that has transformed from being known for gangs and violence to its academic performance and music in only eight years!
The punishment is non-corporal. I personally do not support any form of physical punishment.
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You think that tougher punishments for bullying should be in place?I disagree. Parents and schools can work together to deal with bullying. This cooperation takes time, though it becomes easier once the procedures and expectations are put in place. I am not saying that bullying or discrimination can be removed from the school environment completely. However, it can be reduced significantly.It really is a sad ordeal, gay teen suicide rates are remarkably high compared to their straight counterparts, as are the reports of bullying. Is there any solution that is viable.No.
Yes. Possibly to the extent of punishing the parents. More often than not, bullying is a learned behavior.
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You think that tougher punishments for bullying should be in place?Personally, I need you to define tougher. I am not too sure how extreme a punishment you might consider appropriate.
I work in the government school system and have nine years experience. Two as a casual teacher and seven as a full-time appointment.
In my experience the best way a school can deal with bullying is to set clear expectations for student behaviour and maintain a consistent system of punishment. This requires the cooperation of the school executive, the teachers, the student council and the parents.
Students need to be educated on what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. However, the school needs the support of staff, students and teachers to ensure this works.
I work in a school that has transformed from being known for gangs and violence to its academic performance and music in only eight years!
The punishment is non-corporal. I personally do not support any form of physical punishment.
I don't support corporal punishment either, but I do believe in well defined boundaries. I think you would have a better insight into the education system than I would.
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I had intended the link to speak more than the statement. Did you watch the link?re: back on topic......
This just further shows homophobia is horrible illness that needs to be stopped.You stated that "homophobia is a horrible illness that needs to be stopped,"
then, in support of this contention, seemed to state that, yes, your professional opinion is that indeed it is a pathology.I would posit that, given the OP, and the line of thought that continued from it, I never veered from the topic.
Instead, what I did was ask for clarification of some possibly erroneous statements in support of this initial statement.
I ernestly do not mean to be deliberately obtuse. The problem of homophobia definitely needs to be addressed. I do not think that making possibly erroneous statements about the subject is the right way to go about this.
Now I did.
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The strategies that we have initiated in our school have been effective. I am not saying that our school is free of bullying or discrimination, I am saying that it is reduced significantly.
How did we achieve this?
First, we had a Deputy Principal that had no tolerance for bullying. He began to unify the school executive, the staff and the P&C behind his plan to reverse the school's negative community and image.
Second, he created a clear expectation of student behaviour and a consistent policy of punishment. Students were continuously reminded of their responsibilities. Parents were involved in the process if a student was referred to the Deputy Principal or suspended.
Third, no student was allowed to return to school until a Deputy Principal conducted an interview with that student and the parents. A contract was signed by the student to acknowledge the responsibility was their own and they were expected to meet the behavioural standards of the school.
Continuing with his work, I have been involved in initiatives to work with the local primary school to reduce bullying. Our local primary school is one of our main feeder schools and the relationship between both institutions is very close.
Primary students are educated through anti-bullying initiatives well before they enroll at the high school. This education is continued through a strong student community, peer support program and a dedicated welfare team that involves the principal, teachers and students.
We also have a dedicated Head Teacher Welfare. This is so important in our success so far.
This does not mean we have not had our share of tragedy. One of my students, who is in my year group, was gay and committed suicide. That event remains the most tragic in my professional career. However, from that we have learned the importance of welfare and maintaining a strong stance against bullying and discrimination in our school.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Just because I'm stirring the pot. Don't forget 302.9 can include homosexuality, and it had it's own code in the DSM III, so if you want to whip out 'disorders' there's more precident for homosexuality to be a "horrible illness that needs to be stopped."*
Words have meaning. As to bullying... That's part of human nature, establishing dominance, pack behaviour, etc. I went through it, and am not the only one.
I've commented on several of Dan's posts (and resulting troll comments) here.
I don't think 'bullying' can be cut out of human social makeup but that's just me.
*
Unthinking fear of the other is wrong. Calling it an 'illness' is likewise.Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation.
Which is why the term "homophobia" is itself a rhetorical abuse -- a way to silence discussion and encourage anti-religious bigotry.
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Which is why the term "homophobia" is itself a rhetorical abuse -- a way to silence discussion and encourage anti-religious bigotry.Unthinking fear of the other is wrong. Calling it an 'illness' is likewise.Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation.
Not getting into religious belief. No one mentioned it and not the thread for it.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Which is why the term "homophobia" is itself a rhetorical abuse -- a way to silence discussion and encourage anti-religious bigotry.Unthinking fear of the other is wrong. Calling it an 'illness' is likewise.Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation.
Would that be 'discoursaphobia?' ;-)
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Just because I'm stirring the pot. Don't forget 302.9 can include homosexuality, and it had it's own code in the DSM III, so if you want to whip out 'disorders' there's more precident for homosexuality to be a "horrible illness that needs to be stopped."*
Words have meaning. As to bullying... That's part of human nature, establishing dominance, pack behaviour, etc. I went through it, and am not the only one.
I've commented on several of Dan's posts (and resulting troll comments) here.
I don't think 'bullying' can be cut out of human social makeup but that's just me.
*** spoiler omitted **
Sure and there was a reason it was taken out of the DSM so drop it.
Secondly maybe some bullying is inevitable but what about the certain type of bullying on gay teens?
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First Wolfie, I have a masters degree in clinical psychology, so to your statement. "You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing." Yes I do know what a phobia is. Secondly there is a difference between a debilitating phobia and a minor phobia. For example at the long term resident mental health facility I work at we have agoraphobic patients. Some are to the point they can't leave their rooms, some just can't leave the building but we still describe it as a debilitating phobia. Some of my friends just hate spiders, so much so they freeze up when they see one and have to leave the room. One is capable of living with it, others not so much. Secondly someone who "hates" homosexuals usually does so on an irrational basis. Hence it would still be a phobia like Xenophobia. It may be a trained behavior, but it is still unhealthy. I stick by my previous statement. And if someone has a disagreement with homosexuals then I wouldn't see that person as a homophobe, people like Fred Phelps on the other hand.......You do know what a phobia is, right? It's not disliking or not approving of a thing.
Frankly, having known persons with true life altering phobias, I find the flippant way it is tossed around to put people who dislike homosexuality in as negative a light as possible, as offensive as you might find those peoples beliefs.
Just because someone holds irrational views it doesn't make them mentally ill. I think, as others have stated, that that provides a form of absolution for hateful behaviour that it doesn't deserve. Certainly, prejudice and violence against homosexuals and homosexuality should be eradicated, but I agree with Matthew that unfortunately that probably isn't possible to the extent that certain people just want other people to hate to validate themselves. Bullying gay teens may stop when homosexuality is less stigmatised (in certain cirles), but doubtless they'll find some other reason to bully people.
Which is why the term "homophobia" is itself a rhetorical abuse -- a way to silence discussion and encourage anti-religious bigotry.Unthinking fear of the other is wrong. Calling it an 'illness' is likewise.Well by definition it is an illness I am afraid. A phobia is a mental disorder, a minor disorder maybe, but still a disorder. Phobia - (definition) An irrational fear or hatred of an object, group, or situation.
I'll follow Jeremy's example and not take the bait on the religious issue, but I'm interested in what way you perceive it to be a way to silence discussion?
What type of discussion does it silence? Define, please.|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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[Sure and there was a reason it was taken out of the DSM so drop it.
Secondly maybe some bullying is inevitable but what about the certain type of bullying on gay teens?
So it's ok for you to add "horrible illnesses" but not ok to point out that other "horrible illnesses" have been removed. Got it.
And only 'certain type[s]' of bullying concern you?
This is twice now you've asked people to 'drop' points of view you're uncomfortable with. I do think you have the 'horrible illness' of discoursaphobia, Jeremy.
I am concerned about how kids handle all bullying. Not just one group and damn the rest. I don't think it can be stopped. I do think people who are bullied need to have support.
[Sure and there was a reason it was taken out of the DSM so drop it.
Secondly maybe some bullying is inevitable but what about the certain type of bullying on gay teens?
So it's ok for you to add "horrible illnesses" but not ok to point out that other "horrible illnesses" have been removed. Got it.
And only 'certain type[s]' of bullying concern you?
This is twice now you've asked people to 'drop' points of view you're uncomfortable with. I do think you have the 'horrible illness' of discoursaphobia, Jeremy.
I am concerned about how kids handle all bullying. Not just one group and damn the rest. I don't think it can be stopped. I do think people who are bullied need to have support.
Mental illness or not, I hope we can agree that it's at least a societal illness. Something that makes society (around the globe) function less than optimal and actually causes harm to its "organs" (members).
Jeremy pointed out the issues of gay bullying most likely because of the recent rash of gay teen suicides. I don't think any of us don't see "normal" bullying as a problem either.|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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What type of discussion does it silence? Define, please.
I'll take the bait. Rather than addressing the issues raised by someone who disagrees with you, it is 'easier' to accuse them of x-phobia and dismiss their points as 'hate', since the standard reaction is 'I'm not!"
For example, to use another 'gay rights' subject, look at DADT. I think it needs to be repealed, and the UCMJ (I think it's Article 25) altered I do defer to the experts in the military who have studied it more than I, but I disagree with the recent court decision, both in it's juristiction and its scope. I also cheered the bipartisan defeat of Harry Reid's latest attempt to curry favour by sticking DADT and an unpoular immigration bill in the defense budget.
So, am I for 'gay rights' because I think DADT should be phased out? Am I against 'gay rights' because I don't support the changing of the definition of marriage? But wait, I support the creation of a seperate institution for same sex couples, through the legislative process. So am I 'homophobic' or not?
Religiously, I do think it's a sin, but I also, religiously know I sin, a lot. (My sin is gluttony BTW, I hate sloth). I also know I don't have the right to force my beliefs on others. Minister, yes. Force down their throats, no. But because I believe it's a sin, then it's easy to shout me down as 'homophobic'.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Mental illness or not, I hope we can agree that it's at least a societal illness. Something that makes society (around the globe) function less than optimal and actually causes harm to its "organs" (members).
Jeremy pointed out the issues of gay bullying most likely because of the recent rash of gay teen suicides. I don't think any of us don't see "normal" bullying as a problem either.
<Amature sociology hat on>
Is it an illness, or something left over from our primative nature? Pack animals frequently establish an order of dominance, complete with the Omega who's 'everybody's b$#$!'. If such social posturing as bullying (which face it, is trying to establish one's 'higher status' over another). We, as Man, have the ability to socialize and rise above it, but socially, we need to be able to show that it isn't the only option, and it isn't the end of the world.<Amature sociology hat off>
<theological mode set to 'on'>
What makes us different from the wolves, is our souls, the spark of the Divine that makes us unique. We have the ability to decide, 'I will not be a Richard today'. Animals don't. It's not always the easy choice, but we can make it.
<theological mode set to 'off'>
Edit, oops, didn't mean to set off the filter.
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What type of discussion does it silence? Define, please.I'll take the bait. Rather than addressing the issues raised by someone who disagrees with you, it is 'easier' to accuse them of x-phobia and dismiss their points as 'hate', since the standard reaction is 'I'm not!"
For example, to use another 'gay rights' subject, look at DADT. I think it needs to be repealed, and the UCMJ (I think it's Article 25) altered I do defer to the experts in the military who have studied it more than I, but I disagree with the recent court decision, both in it's juristiction and its scope. I also cheered the bipartisan defeat of Harry Reid's latest attempt to curry favour by sticking DADT and an unpoular immigration bill in the defense budget.
So, am I for 'gay rights' because I think DADT should be phased out? Am I against 'gay rights' because I don't support the changing of the definition of marriage? But wait, I support the creation of a seperate institution for same sex couples, through the legislative process. So am I 'homophobic' or not?
Religiously, I do think it's a sin, but I also, religiously know I sin, a lot. (My sin is gluttony BTW, I hate sloth). I also know I don't have the right to force my beliefs on others. Minister, yes. Force down their throats, no. But because I believe it's a sin, then it's easy to shout me down as 'homophobic'.
Well said, Matthew.
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[Sure and there was a reason it was taken out of the DSM so drop it.
Secondly maybe some bullying is inevitable but what about the certain type of bullying on gay teens?
So it's ok for you to add "horrible illnesses" but not ok to point out that other "horrible illnesses" have been removed. Got it.
And only 'certain type[s]' of bullying concern you?
This is twice now you've asked people to 'drop' points of view you're uncomfortable with. I do think you have the 'horrible illness' of discoursaphobia, Jeremy.
I am concerned about how kids handle all bullying. Not just one group and damn the rest. I don't think it can be stopped. I do think people who are bullied need to have support.
Ok first I don't label everyone who disagrees with me a homophobe, only those with a deep seated hatred. Example of deep seated hatred would be Fred Phelps. MOST people I meet with an aversion I see as a) ignorant because most have never personally known a homosexual b) I just have a fundamental disagreement with them. Homophobic behaviour on the other hand many people of capable of displaying that behavior for a variety of reasons without in my opinion being a homophobe. In Canada we started a major saturation of society. Basically in Canada 81% of people under 25 are in favor of gay rights. We taught them tolerance in schools, we taught them tolerance on tv, we taught tolerance everywhere we could and we hope it pays off.
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[. And if someone has a disagreement with homosexuals then I wouldn't see that person as a homophobe, people like Fred Phelps on the other hand.......is an example of a person who's more complicated than at first glance. While he is famous for his homophobic and anti-American diatribes, he also has had a history in actually being the good guy in civil rights issues as listed below from wikipedia.
Phelps took cases on behalf of African American clients alleging racial discrimination by school systems, and a predominantly black American Legion post which had been raided by police, alleging racially based police abuse.[citation needed] Phelps' law firm obtained settlements for some clients.[12] Phelps also sued then-President Ronald Reagan over Reagan's appointment of a U.S. ambassador to the Vatican, alleging this violated separation of church and state. The case was dismissed by the U.S. district court.[12][13] Phelps' law firm, staffed by himself and family members also represented non-white Kansans in discrimination actions against Kansas City Power and Light, Southwestern Bell, and the Topeka City Attorney, and represented two female professors alleging discrimination in Kansas universities.[11]
In the 1980s, Phelps received awards from the Greater Kansas City Chapter of Blacks in Government and the Bonner Springs branch of the NAACP, for his work on behalf of black clients.[14][i}
Source for bracketed items below.
# ^ U.S. Department of Justice (1986-10). "On Petition for a Writ of Certiorari to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit" (txt). United States Department of Justice. http://www.justice.gov/osg/briefs/1986/sg860401.txt. Retrieved 2007-11-01.
# ^ Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church: In Their Own Words, Anti-Defamation League, 2006-06-21, http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/default.asp, retrieved 2006-12-14I don't approve of Westboro's activities in the slightest, but he's clearly more than meets the current...
I've more than once thought that Phelps may be schizophrenic. I know his record of civil rights issues, but his inability to associate societal norms makes me wonder. Mind you I'm not nearly in a position to psycho-evaluate him, I just have my suspicions and clues I pick up from his actions.
Religiously, I do think it's a sin, but I also, religiously know I sin, a lot. (My sin is gluttony BTW, I hate sloth). I also know I don't have the right to force my beliefs on others. Minister, yes. Force down their throats, no. But because I believe it's a sin, then it's easy to shout me down as 'homophobic'.
Why? May I ask?
Actually I'll ask you in a seperate thread, so as not to be too distracting.