I've always been a fan of the ranger class. The rough and hardy woodsman with an eye for tracking who made a career out of hating his enemies: what's not to love? However, they always ended up being largely situational. They've improved vastly from 3.5, but the situation remains that some campaigns are simply not suited for rangers.
In 3.5 a ranger would grab favored enemies that were immune to critical hits & additional damage: undead, elementals, oozes, etc. This kept you relavent in most fights. With 3.PF removing a lot of these stipulations, the ranger has a broader choice of enemies and fewer penalties for choosing one over the other. Still, the fact remains that you'll probably never face a favored enemy every day, so you'll dwell between moderate artillery with lots of skillpoints & a few spells a day & a face melting damage machine with a score to settle.
The APG introduced a lot of new options for the Ranger, and most of them change his playstyle in a significant way. Here are a few of my observations:
Guide: Dismisses a lot of the ranger iconics in favor of a X/day paladin style "smite anything" mechanic that makes the ranger unreasonably good against a single opponent. This keeps the ranger useful every single adventuring day, but infinitely less powerful than a standard ranger fighting her favored enemies. Also, this mechanic can be simulated by focusing on a single favored enemy and using higher level ranger magic to treat the target as that type.
Spirit Warrior: Gains a significant boost to her spellcasting power, up to 5 addtional spells of any level per day. Considering that she generally only has about a dozen or so castings at her highest levels, this is an impressive boost. Add on the fact that it's any spell from the ranger list spontaneously and I'm very impressed. The only downside is that the text doesn't seem to be clear if you can use this ability outside of your favored terrain.
Skirmisher: Opposite of the Spirit Warrior, the Skirmisher gives up spellcasting in favor of combat tricks to aide her on the go. I haven't had a chance to fully evaluate them, so I can't make any judgements.
What do y'all think?
I haven't bought the APG yet but I like the sound of it so far. I definitely think the Spirit Warrior and Skirmisher paths for a Ranger are interesting. I would have to examine the Guide more closely. Well, really I would have to examine them all but at a first glance I think the SW and S are interesting ideas. It isn’t part of the APG but I particularly liked a version of the Spell-less Ranger featured in Kobold magazine, I forget which issue.
I very much liked that they added new combat styles. That was definitely needed.
The spirit ranger looks very interesting, especially since many of the ranger spells are situational. Despite that fact they are all very flavorful. I most likely will make a spirit ranger the next time I play a ranger.
one thing that I was sorta disappointed by was that the new ranger spells didn't have any swift action casting times, like some of the paladin spells. I wish the ranger had gotten some combat option type spells of that nature.
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I haven't bought the APG yet but I like the sound of it so far. I definitely think the Spirit Warrior and Skirmisher paths for a Ranger are interesting. I would have to examine the Guide more closely. Well, really I would have to examine them all but at a first glance I think the SW and S are interesting ideas. It isn’t part of the APG but I particularly liked a version of the Spell-less Ranger featured in Kobold magazine, I forget which issue.
That would be Kobold Quarterly #11 :)
The Skirmisher variant from the APG and the Spell-less Ranger do have a number of similarities.
A case of great minds thinking alike perhaps? ;)
Still, the fact remains that you'll probably never face a favored enemy every day, so you'll dwell between moderate artillery with lots of skillpoints & a few spells a day & a face melting damage machine with a score to settle.
The new options in the APG give decent new alternatives but no power creep - which is, in my opinion, absolutely not needed.
The ranged Ranger in my group (I'm the paladin player) was absolutely damage dealer number one. So I'd rate him as super-artillery, not moderate. Only a Fighter will certainly deal slightly more damage as artillery. Plus, the ranger has good skills, nice saves, evasion, track, blabla...and bad AC. Sadly he died in a multi-cloudkill encounter (nasty demons) in Sigil, when the wizard and my pally were praying/shopping elsewhere. His corpse was instantly teleported to some demonic plane.
The new options in the APG give decent new alternatives but no power creep - which is, in my opinion, absolutely not needed.
The ranged Ranger in my group (I'm the paladin player) was absolutely damage dealer number one. So I'd rate him as super-artillery, not moderate. Only a Fighter will certainly deal slightly more damage as artillery. Plus, the ranger has good skills, nice saves, evasion, track, blabla...and bad AC. Sadly he died in a multi-cloudkill encounter (nasty demons) in Sigil, when the wizard and my pally were praying/shopping elsewhere. His corpse was instantly teleported to some demonic plane.
I agree that power creep was absolutely not needed, and I'm happy to see that every single ranger varient (original included) is about on par with each other, varying only by campaign and setting.
As for the medicore damage, I guess my view of pathfinder is colored by the fact that I'm currently in a group is a fighter who doesn't know the meaning of "take it easy." She's a total bamf.
I was suprised and disapointed to see that none of the new combat feats in the APG were included in the two Core Ranger Comat Styles.
Feats like focused shot for Archery rangers, and any of the new feats that help with two weapons should have been added to those styles to supplement them and offer the player more choices.
I wonder if it was considered and rejected or it somehow slipped past the designers and would make a good errata?
one thing that I was sorta disappointed by was that the new ranger spells didn't have any swift action casting times, like some of the paladin spells. I wish the ranger had gotten some combat option type spells of that nature.
**cough** instant enemy **cough**
I was suprised and disapointed to see that none of the new combat feats in the APG were included in the two Core Ranger Comat Styles.
Feats like focused shot for Archery rangers, and any of the new feats that help with two weapons should have been added to those styles to supplement them and offer the player more choices.
I wonder if it was considered and rejected or it somehow slipped past the designers and would make a good errata?
PRD link to focused shot.
PRD link to point blank master.PRD link to crossbow mastery.
PRD link to parting shot.
As you can see all of those archery feats are included to the archery combat style.
PS. Focused shot is a very bad feat for a ranger IMO.
What two weapon fighting feats are you refering to?
@Leo1925: You're right, the spell "instant enemy" is an increase of power for the ranger, I overlooked it.
I created a 12th level ranger and a 12th level fighter (25-point buy), both TH-fighters and I think most of the time the ranger outdamages the fighter especially with his pet, which was in my case a Tiger with Rhino-Hide, Weapon Focus Claws, Prof. in light and medium armor; AC 31, 90 HP... and a terrible Will Save (his only weakness).
Never forget: the pet also get's the favoured enemy bonus.
The ranger's AC was worse of course (AC 24), but being able to barkskin 3 times (6 hours a day) made up for it (AC 27?). Vs. evil outsider's and instant enemies (3 times a day with a pearl of power) he got +25/+20/+15 damage 2d6+31 (17-20) while power attacking.
@Leo1925: You're right, the spell "instant enemy" is an increase of power for the ranger, I overlooked it.
I created a 12th level ranger and a 12th level fighter (25-point buy), both TH-fighters and I think most of the time the ranger outdamages the fighter especially with his pet, which was in my case a Tiger with Rhino-Hide, Weapon Focus Claws, Prof. in light and medium armor; AC 31, 90 HP... and a terrible Will Save (his only weakness).
Never forget: the pet also get's the favoured enemy bonus.The ranger's AC was worse of course (AC 24), but being able to barkskin 3 times (6 hours a day) made up for it (AC 27?). Vs. evil outsider's and instant enemies (3 times a day with a pearl of power) he got +25/+20/+15 damage 2d6+31 (17-20) while power attacking.
Be aware that (to my best knowledge) the ranger can't select a tiger as his companion.
And yes i am currently playing a ranger in Kingmaker and his damage when getting the favored enemy bonuses (either normal or instant enemy) is pretty amazing.And yes, never forget that the pet gets the favored enemy bonuses.
Be aware that (to my best knowledge) the ranger can't select a tiger as his companion.
Damn it, you're absolutely right, of course. What animal did you take?
Be aware that (to my best knowledge) the ranger can't select a tiger as his companion.Damn it, you're absolutely right, of course. What animal did you take?
Because we are playing Kingmaker and the ranger is a follower of Erastil (which plays quite a lot in this AP) he let me pick a megaloceros as my animal companion. And to be honest at 11+ level, it's better than the wolf and the leopard but it's not as strong as the tiger.
If you take the Beastmaster archetype from the APG, you give up:
6th level Ranger feat
and you get:
Multiple animal companions (total still Ranger level - 3)
Complete animal companion list like the Druid
At 12th level, 3 additional animal companion levels which erases the -3
Damn good trade!
-- david
Papa.DRB
Be aware that (to my best knowledge) the ranger can't select a tiger as his companion.Damn it, you're absolutely right, of course. What animal did you take?
I never understood why someone would take more than one animal companion. It seems to weaken them too much. The main point of the archetype for me is the full list of animals and the 12th level ability.
If you take the Beastmaster archetype from the APG, you give up:
6th level Ranger feat
and you get:
Multiple animal companions (total still Ranger level - 3)
Complete animal companion list like the Druid
At 12th level, 3 additional animal companion levels which erases the -3Damn good trade!
-- david
Papa.DRB
Keep in mind that (at least RAW) the animal companion(s) of a beastmaster ranger don't get the favored enemy bonuses.
Just for the sake of discussion, i replaced the megaloceros with a wolf because the megaloceros was quite powerful.