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In the last sentence of the feat it says:
"You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to grapple you."
A has improved grapple. A grapples B. B tries to escape with an escape artist check against A's CMD. Is A's CMD increased by 2 from Improved grapple?
I have asked something similar in the past regarding the favorite class options of human fighters in order to resist grapple, but this is a more clear and straight example. By RAW it is not clear but at least I want to know how the majority plays it?
You are correct, by RAW it doesn't clearly indicate if you get the +2 bonus to your CMD when someone tries to escape. I think the spirit of the feat though is Improved grapple and you get the bonus in all other circumstances. The feat says +2 to checks to grapple an opponent. I would give it to him/her since I believe it is just a gap in the wording and the intent is there.
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As I read it, trying to break the grapple or escape it is not the same thing as someone trying to grapple you. If he tried to reverse it on you the +2 would apply.
I think that if it was intended to be applied more broadly it would say something like: "You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense on all grapple related checks" rather than using a phrase that distinctly limits the situations it would apply in.
That said- I don't think it is a big deal to apply it as you suggest. Hardly game breaking and as terok says it is in the spirit of the feat.
As I read it, trying to break the grapple or escape it is not the same thing as someone trying to grapple you. If he tried to reverse it on you the +2 would apply.
I think that if it was intended to be applied more broadly it would say something like: "You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense on all grapple related checks" rather than using a phrase that distinctly limits the situations it would apply in.
I agree with you and I also rule the same for human fighter favorite option:
Fighter: Add +1 to the fighter’s CMD when resistingtwo combat maneuvers of the character’s choice.
But I have no idea of what the majority thinks. More opinions please.
I just see it as odd mechanics. You can grab someone easier and it is harder for someone to grab you, but it is just as easy for them to escape you after you have grabbed them?
Doesn't make much sense to me. You are either a better wrestler or you are not. Just my opinion though
I just see it as odd mechanics. You can grab someone easier and it is harder for someone to grab you, but it is just as easy for them to escape you after you have grabbed them?
Doesn't make much sense to me. You are either a better wrestler or you are not. Just my opinion though
Lets say that you have a level 10 human fighter with feats for grapple. Until the alternative racial traits appeared I had the same opinion as you. But now this fighter receives an extra 10 to its CMD if this is true and an extra +2 from improved grapple. I do not think that this was intended. I know that these are 2 different abilities but this made me rethink if paizo wants to mean something different with phrases as whenever an opponent tries to grapple you and resisting. Of course it could just be a bad choice of words and means nothing.
So in the case of human fighter favorite option how would you interpret the rules?
I consider the "grapple CMD" to be a unified statistic and would give the person his full "grapple CMD" even in the situation mentioned above.
As I read it, trying to break the grapple or escape it is not the same thing as someone trying to grapple you. If he tried to reverse it on you the +2 would apply.
I think that if it was intended to be applied more broadly it would say something like: "You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense on all grapple related checks" rather than using a phrase that distinctly limits the situations it would apply in.
Agreed. It implies that you get the +2 when someone tries to grapple you, not escape from your grapple.
My interpretation of the feat, broken down line by line:
"You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing a grapple combat maneuver." No clarification needed.
"In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. "
When you initiate a grapple or try an offensive grapple maneuver such as pin, etc., you get a +2.
"You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to grapple you." When someone tries to initiate a grapple on you, or in the middle of a grapple tries to do any offensive grapple maneuver against you, you are good at defending against it, so you get a +2 on your CMD. Someone trying to escape from your grapple is not initiating an offensive action against you, so you don't get the +2 bonus to prevent them from escaping.
I agree the feat implies that you are overall a better grappler -- you are better at grappling others and defending when they try to grapple you. However, that last sentence seems to be an attempt to apply a small limit to the feat so that it doesn't become overly difficult to escape from your grapple. It's a game balancer.
Remember that this limit also applies to monsters with the feat that are trying to prevent you from escaping their grapple.