Where on earth does it state you MUST rest? One of my friends brought up the fact he couldn't locate a penalty for staying away constantly and I'll be damned if I can correct him yet! Anyone know if such a penalty exists and if so what page is it on?
And no, I am not interested in common sense or house rules, I'm looking for a specific ruling here, because I will find it hilarious if it was overlooked.
The rules are quiet on the issue. It's been discussed before, probably in several threads on the boards over the summer. The best I can recall just now is in the discussion of overland movement, forced marches, and hustling. That, and the glossary descriptions of exhaustion and fatigue. Oh, and in the preparing spells part of the magic chapter. But nothing that says "All creatures must rest or suffer XYZ penalty".
Closest I got beyond what Lathiira has is that several classes do state you must rest in order to regain abilities/spells... but several of those don't have to do all the resting at one time (monks and barbarians specifically).
Wait wait, just found it:
Look in the bestiary:
"•Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep"
Many of the monster types have a line like this that tells you if they eat, breathe, and sleep.
Don't forget the universal rules in the Bestiary that state which creature types must Breathe, Eat, and SLEEP.
It would be nice if it said how much food or how long was required for completeness' sake, or to provide a mechanic for judging when characters start to get punchy from lack of sleep. New GMs especially might appreciate that.
[I'd say "Ninja'd" but that spark a discussion I don't want to get into ;) ]
Hmmm yes this is what brought up in our discussion. Sad they didn't include some actual rules about how long you could go without sleep until you where fatigued/exhausted/insane.
One of the APs had an adventure where the PCs had to stay awake for 2 days. It said that they would be fatigued after the first day, and would become exhausted after the second.
I suppose that's a good enough rule of thumb to follow :)
Yeah just look out for lesser restoration and lay on hand mercies to clear those conditions up.
One of the APs had an adventure where the PCs had to stay awake for 2 days. It said that they would be fatigued after the first day, and would become exhausted after the second.
I suppose that's a good enough rule of thumb to follow :)
do you recall which one?
do you recall which one?
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do you recall which one?** spoiler omitted **
That same adventure path also features an NPC abusing restoration spells to stay awake for an unnaturally long period of time.
I can't recall if it was described this way as written or if I changed it, but the character was plenty miserable and haggard because of it, eventually running the threat of morale penalties.
There's also something to be said for requiring people that stay awake that long to start having to make rolls to disbelieve random illusions. ;)
You better watch it! You're getting dangerously close to allowing the DM to "just make stuff up" (also called "logical extrapolation" or "doing a good job").
The rules set will never survive such shenanigans!
Really now regarding resting we know that the RAW doesn't say a lot of things, but I would really like to know how different groups handle it. Let's set a specific example:
Traveling from town A to town B (distance = 16 hours walking). You initially walk your 8 hours for the day and decide to camp. You have 16hours to make your camp, cook or whatever else and also sleep. The most common question is who will guard for the night (8 hours). So what do you usually do in practice ( I mean during your campaigns not in real life :-)?
a) Everybody sleeps except one who will sleep next day? i have seen this in games. Would you allow it, loosing a night's sleep without any penalties if it is only for 1 night. Not 2 nights consecutive.
b) The sleep in shifts. If yes then lets say that we have 4 PCs. If the all guard for two hours at least then in order for all of them to sleep 8 hours they should rest for at least 10 hours all together. Except if you say that 6 hours are enough for a day.
c) Doing something else?
I would truly like to know how other DMs deal with these things :-P
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b) The sleep in shifts. If yes then lets say that we have 4 PCs. If the all guard for two hours at least then in order for all of them to sleep 8 hours they should rest for at least 10 hours all together. Except if you say that 6 hours are enough for a day.
This is how my parties handle it. Sleeping in shifts is safe, and it gets everyone rested. If there's enough of a hurry that shift-sleeping isn't practical, then it's usually enough of a hurry that sleeping at all isn't practical. My current group usually creates overlapping watches to get through the night, so that no one is ever awake alone. Having had to do shift-sleeping in real life (long car trips, and weekend boffer LARPs), having an accountabili-buddy makes a world of difference on the quality of your watch.
Jeremy Puckett
b) The sleep in shifts. If yes then lets say that we have 4 PCs. If the all guard for two hours at least then in order for all of them to sleep 8 hours they should rest for at least 10 hours all together. Except if you say that 6 hours are enough for a day.This is how my parties handle it. Sleeping in shifts is safe, and it gets everyone rested. If there's enough of a hurry that shift-sleeping isn't practical, then it's usually enough of a hurry that sleeping at all isn't practical. My current group usually creates overlapping watches to get through the night, so that no one is ever awake alone. Having had to do shift-sleeping in real life (long car trips, and weekend boffer LARPs), having an accountabili-buddy makes a world of difference on the quality of your watch.
Jeremy Puckett
So when sleeping in shifts how much time do you usually demand from the PCs to sleep overall?
6 hours? 8? Have you ever allowed someone to not sleep at all? Would you apply penalties to that guy just for loosing a day's sleep?
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Just because rules for not sleeping aren't in the book doesn't mean that characters shouldn't sleep... The authors probably assumed a modicum of common sense (sadly lacking in some of these cases where people leap on the 'RULES DONT SAY I HAVE TO' bandwagon...).
That said, the line shown by Abraham should be sufficient even for people who do that.
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This was discussed on ENworld quite a while ago. Check this thread http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=1745352 for some great thoughts on it.
Penalties for failing to rest can be found in the chapter on travel. Once your character has performed the equivalent of walking (which is to say, a move action per round) for eight hours without sleep, each additional hour of activity equivalent to walking forces a Fort save, as explained under the Forced March rules, to avoid fatigue and nonlethal damage.
If your character is doing more than the equivalent of a move action per round for more than an hour, he becomes fatigued and takes nonlethal damage due to hustling.
So basically, if you try to do anything beyond sitting around camp doing nothing, you're going to need sleep cycles to reset your "hours of walking" or else you're going to very quickly end up fatigued, and then exhausted, on an hour-by-hour basis.
Also, the rules are pretty clear about the need for rest with respect to arcane spellcasters:
Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours.
Each day, sorcerers and bards must focus their minds on the task of casting their spells. A sorcerer or bard needs 8 hours of rest
Divine spellcasters don't need 8 hours of rest, but they do need to stop and pray the same time each day.
The need to keep arcane casters recharged tends to be enough to keep groups resting each day.